About the SH5 campaigns - what you like/dislike

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Im curious to find out what you guys like/dislike in SH5 campaign. For example, among many others, my biggest frustration was generated by 3 missions: the carrier from TG, the BB from op. Weserubung and the 5 troop transport from Winstons special. Most stupid mission, hunting a HK group in BP. Most annoying campaign, MNostrum.

So how you imagine a good SH campaign, what was good, what can be improved etc.

/discuss

I hope for long time that you start to rework the campaigns... make the same thing that you made for the last one... we really need a good campaign mod and you have the skils to make this mod - i can not tell you what i like or not because i am still in total germany... but the guys sh3 funs all time they say that the campaigns from sh5 are scrap and we are missing ships

[Obelix]

Zedi, you're absolutely right! Campaign in SH5 just crazy. I was particularly disappointed Mare Nostrum (back and forth through Gibraltar as on the avenue). A hunt for the destroyers - a general delirium!
In my understanding, the campaign requires a complete redesign.

[TheBeast]

My #1 issue from the very start was you are unable to select what Type U-Boat you command. When new boat becomes available, what Type is it? All you know is that a new boat is available, do you want to use it, Yes/No...

Then as I begin to research this a little, I am disturbed to find the lack of missions on a U-Boat Class/Flotilla basis. The Campaign has Specific Missions. Those Missions may or may not require special feature of a U-Boat, such as range ability. This prevents using, say, Type-II(When/If available) during the Western Approaches Date/Time era because no missions exits during that time that the Type-II class would be able to complete.

Re-Supply at sea(Why so stingy). Did Type-VII U-Boats really act as re-supply vessel for other Type-VII u-boats? Were these resupply U-Boats new skippers on training missions?
Maybe only use Surface Resupply Ships until after dates that the Type-XIV Milk Cows were deployed. My history knowlege is weak in this area but something does not seem right. If I use most of my fuel to deploy to patrol area, how is same clsss boat going to be waiting there with weapons and fuel for me?

Also, maybe contact Privateer for permission to use Type-XIV Milk Cow Model (AKA: Fat Bottom Girl) as AI-Resupply Vessel.

[THE_MASK]

What i like about the campaign in sh5 is that people can work on black may . Someone else can work on happy times etc .

[StarTrekMike]

I for one would love a reworked campaign, I think going to a SH3 style or even a SH4 style game would be best.

I like the special missions you get in SH4, they never seemed like a stupid use for a submarine to me and you could always go back to sinking tonnage after without feeling like you are not following what the game wants.

It would be nice if we just did not need to hunt warships...that is just silly.


Mike

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by StarTrekMike

I like the special missions you get in SH4, they never seemed like a stupid use for a submarine to me and you could always go back to sinking tonnage after without feeling like you are not following what the game wants.

Trouble with that, as far as the ATO is concerned, is historical accuracy, if one was to be overly concerned about it. Frankly, I have the impression all most people want from their Uboat game, is a set of grid coordinates.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by StarTrekMike

I for one would love a reworked campaign, I think going to a SH3 style or even a SH4 style game would be best.

I like the special missions you get in SH4, they never seemed like a stupid use for a submarine to me and you could always go back to sinking tonnage after without feeling like you are not following what the game wants.

It would be nice if we just did not need to hunt warships...that is just silly.


Mike

I second that. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Zedi]

I was expecting much more hate/passion over this subject as the campaign is the core of the game. Is what keep us playing or leaving.

Originally Posted by TheBeast

I am disturbed to find the lack of missions on a U-Boat Class/Flotilla basis. The Campaign has Specific Missions. Those Missions may or may not require special feature of a U-Boat, such as range ability. This prevents using, say, Type-II(When/If available) during the Western Approaches Date/Time era because no missions exits during that time that the Type-II class would be able to complete.

Not sure I understand what you mean by flotilla basis missions. Its all about go out, sink stuff. Only Drumbeat was a special operation where you should have a special boat, the type IX.. but there is no such a boat in the game, so...

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Re-Supply at sea(Why so stingy). Did Type-VII U-Boats really act as re-supply vessel for other Type-VII u-boats? Were these resupply U-Boats new skippers on training missions?
Maybe only use Surface Resupply Ships until after dates that the Type-XIV Milk Cows were deployed. My history knowlege is weak in this area but something does not seem right. If I use most of my fuel to deploy to patrol area, how is same clsss boat going to be waiting there with weapons and fuel for me?

Same thing.. we have only 2-3 type of boats modeled in the game, love it hate it. If anyone will manage to import or build ships for SH5, then we can talk about this subject in details. But replacing the u-boats with tankers is not a good option as they have a big chance to be destroyed by the enemy traffic before we meet them. They not just spawn in certain areas, they really live and sail, pls read further:

These days I found out why we have time by time issues with the resupply and tbh, it was a very nice surprise. If is anything brilliant in SH5, thats the campaign, its a really amazing piece of work.

The supply ships/milkcows are "living" things! That means, they patrol the sea for a very long time period and then head back to base for refit. This is the reason why many times the resupply is denied. If is no supply ship in the area, its logical to be denied on the resupply request, but if is one close enough you will have his coordinate.

There are about 3 supply ship constantly patrolling the seas trying to cover a huge map, they go from N Atlantic down to south, back in North Sea and return to base. And this sounds very realistic and historical to me. And do not forget, they can be eliminated by the enemy if they encounter a task force. And as far as I know, there were only 10 milkcows in ww2 and a couple of tankers, the most hunted ships in that era. So this part is not a bug, but a feature. A nice one.
Read more here

Originally Posted by sober

What i like about the campaign in sh5 is that people can work on black may . Someone else can work on happy times etc .

Except Mare Nostrum. Reworking that campaign needs a team. The devs were very proud about that particular campaign as it show the power of the new dynamic campaign engine, but the goals are pulled of from a Hollywood script, not from reality. A single sub hunting Force XYZ is just hilarious. And thats all about in MN.

Originally Posted by StarTrekMike

I for one would love a reworked campaign, I think going to a SH3 style or even a SH4 style game would be best.

I like the special missions you get in SH4, they never seemed like a stupid use for a submarine to me and you could always go back to sinking tonnage after without feeling like you are not following what the game wants.

It would be nice if we just did not need to hunt warships...that is just silly.

Well, not sure which part are you talking abut. The stock campaign or the one from GWX. The stock campaign made me to drop SH3 just after few months. Go out and patrol 1 area for X hours is just .. boring. Do not forget, no campaign in SH5 is forcing you to complete it. None. If you feel like, just go out and patrol, the campaign will still complete and give you access to another one, with some exceptions.. for example to have acces to the Drumbeat campaign you need to finish all the missions in Western Approaches.

But thats correct, hunting capital ships is silly. If we encounter one and we engage it, should be our call, not a mission objective. Also hunting a particular ship in the world oceans.. thats just crazy. Is what Ive done in Open Horizons, remove every capital ship hunt and replacing them with missions more appropriate for a submarine. Hard ones that makes you bleed.

Just curious.. in Total Germany, instead of hunting a carrier in the middle of nowhere what would be a better option? Just having a tonnage mission in the same area?

[mustacheman]

Hi Zedi, i´ve been lurking for some time but your thread prompted me to register. What I´d like to see in SH5 campains is some historical accuracy. I mean operating in a wolfpack or having orders to follow a convoy to guide other packmembers thats what the typical orders for uboat-crews were. The BdU never issued specific tonnage orders (Sink 50.000 tons) because he never knew if a certain boat even met the enemy. To locate an enemy convoi in a vast ocean is no easy feat and would have been impossible if any uboat-captain headed to where he wanted to.
I´d like to see some decent German AI. So that there is a chance that AI-boats attack and pull away the escorts.
I´d like to see the BdU order boats back to their position if they left it for no good reason. Some might find it very boring to patrol an area as part of a wolfpack - and nothing happens cause no convoi comes along. But that´s how things were.
Ever read "Das Boot" by Buchheim? Whole chapters go on about the colour of the air and sea - because nothing happens. An other interesting book is "Ali Cremer" (CO of U-333 and later one of the new XXI boats - don´t know if it´s available in english). In it it´s clearly illustrated how much punishment Type VII boats could take and that part of the job was WAITING for the enemy to show up (and from Black May onwards the job was to survive). You see, I´m becoming sidetracked. The stock campains are simply rubbish. Just my 2 cents. See/read you!

[Zedi]

You guys fail to understand a simple thing. Nothing in the new dynamic campaign is mandatory. These missions are optional. Even going out and ignoring all the missions, the campaign will still continue .. is not like you failed to complete a mission, you are unable to progress. Not at all. Take those missions as Prien took the Donitz idea of raiding Scapa. So is like choosing being a hero or a casual noob.

Now there is one thing that is kinda bugged in SH5 campaign. The radio messaging system. Tried all kinda tricks to bring back the radio messages and link them to the dynamic campaign, so the event reported are for real and not just some scripted messages like was in GWX. Took me a while to realize that there is no way to send out messages at a precise date and hour because the devs wanted to change the system but seems like they had no time to finish it.

Seems like the plan was to control the whole radio traffic through the radio guy. So he will receive the message from Bdu then he will inform you through the dialog or log panel. Then you should have several options, like respond or ignore the message.. or who know, maybe even compose your own message. I still try to experiment with the classic triggers and events system to bring up some radio messages, but there is little chance that this will work, the whole messaging system is scripted into the campaign engine.

I reworked a bit the Total Germany campaign, so when you are on some special missions like huntin a carrier or some capital ships, the Bdu will actually help with intel and you should see on map reports about your target location. Not sure how this will work with real nav.

The extended campaign Open Horizons is about surviving for sure. And the missions in that campaign are made for subs, not for battleships. Its a very hard campaign played on high realism.

[TheDarkWraith]

If you're using my UIs mod I intercept ALL radio messages and route them to the new radio messages box. Is it possible that they are showing up there and not where you are expecting

[Zedi]

As far as I see, the messages we get are scripted, except the periscope sighted and ship sunk ones. The rest, based on historical events and some distant battles and convoy routes are from the radiomessages.txt and they have delays. I got messaged from D-Day a week before the events, posted once a screen about.

But sending messages at a precise date and hour is impossible in the campaign. Maybe with your .dll injection, but not with ME. I posted about this issue here.

[Kapitan_Kaput]

just a thought but I'd like to see historical and fictional missions involving the testing and use of Wundewaffe like the experimental u-boat launched guided anti-ship missles...etc., but I realize this involves more than a campaign re-write