Problem of Omniscient Destroyers in TMO

Sandman_28054 · 04-08-11, 07:23 AM

I'm not using RSRD, but I am using TMO 2.

As it is stated, some like it easy, and some like it hard.

I don't like to tweek the settings because it makes me try to develop tactics to defeat them.

I always save with first contact with a convoy or Task Force.

This way, if I set up for an attack and I'm discovered, if they depth charge me to oblivion, I can load the save and try again.

I started a new career three days ago, Lt. Commander Sam Gamewell. I was ordered to patrol within 108 miles of Convoy College for 4 days.

Well I know where the attack on Manila is going to tke place and from what direction.

I placed myself right in front of the lead destroyer.

Sure enough, I was picked up and three DD's came straight for me.

I found out that when they are within 1500-1000 yards of me, I can "crash dive" and turn either 20 degrees to port or starboard until the DD's pass, get back on course and order "Periscope Depth" and come up usually with one or two of the DD's directly behind me. If I time it just right, I can sink them leaving just one more between me and the convoy.

Then its just a matter or picking them apart.

This don't always work, but sometimes it does.

Overkill · 04-08-11, 08:05 AM

No good deed...

Rockin Robbins · 04-08-11, 09:43 AM

Oh, no!!!! Overkill has Compulsive Tweaking Disorder (CTD). I know one other person who has this and it leads to terminal insanity!

CTD kills!

By the way, in Ducimus' FAQ that nobody reads he clearly says that you are to tweak to your liking, just don't complain to him if you don't like the results. Many times in the FAQ he even tells you how to change his settings.

Still, the spirit of TMO is savagery. If you kill the spirit then what reason is there to run TMO at all? Might as well load up Beery's last version of RFB where you could sit at periscope depth shooting torpedoes, take multiple hits from depth charges and never get sunk.

Basically, what the difference is is that RFB strives for realism of result, not matter how unrealistic that makes player behavior and TMO seeks realistic player behavior, not matter how unrealistic that makes the rest of the game. I don't see how it's possible to achieve both.

But the fact is that one of five submariners were killed in the war. That's a sobering statistic the made the participants very afraid. In order to have a realistic simulation you must introduce the very real possibility that you might not survive "routine" operations.

Wilcke · 04-08-11, 10:14 AM

Look at it this way, it was and is very difficult to capture what Ducimus noted the "unknown factors' and " the fog of war" in this sim. We have all read the books, seen the videos and know everything there is to know about the IJN, the bad torpedoes, we get to ignore Admiral Lockwood's orders and admonishments. So TMO makes up for all that by adding back that 'fear', so you are literally on the razors edge every time you decide to make an attack.

Its good stuff!

I'm goin' down · 04-08-11, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandman_28054

I don't like to tweek the settings because it makes me try to develop tactics to defeat them.

I always save with first contact with a convoy or Task Force.

This way, if I set up for an attack and I'm discovered, if they depth charge me to oblivion, I can load the save and try again.

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.

Overkill · 04-08-11, 04:59 PM

I guess if you wanted it to be more "realistic" every time you're sunk you could always trap yourself in the shower and then flush your head a couple'a times in the toilet until you pass out.

WernherVonTrapp · 04-08-11, 05:24 PM

I just have the wife walk in and throw a cup of water in my face. She seems to enjoy it and, well, it adds to the immersion effect.

Thrair · 04-08-11, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.

Hey hey hey. No need to be rude to the guy. It's actually a decent way for newer players to practice, try new methods, see how far you can push things, etc. Think of it as an impromptu scenario.

I used to do it all the time when I was learning the game (and again with I began using TMO). And while I'm not a great player, I no longer embarrass myself. Usually. So these practice runs helped.

I'm goin' down · 04-08-11, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrair

Hey hey hey. No need to be rude to the guy. It's actually a decent way for newer players to practice, try new methods, see how far you can push things, etc. Think of it as an impromptu scenario.

I used to do it all the time when I was learning the game (and again with I began using TMO). And while I'm not a great player, I no longer embarrass myself. Usually. So these practice runs helped.

Hey, hey, hey. NOT! Your point is extremely well taken except for one fact. The captain has been a member since March, 2008.

Aside from the fact that I was kidding, which was apparently lost on you, I have no problem or issue with practicing. I do cheat in one instance. When I run into an island because I have not zoomed the Nav Map or am dancing to Radio Hawaii with my crew, I apologize to Le Duc for my poor manners and the faux pas' and restart from my last save.

Armistead · 04-08-11, 07:18 PM

Don't feel bad IGD. After my last patrol, I spent 3 hours evading my elite set escorts, banging away at me with 15 mph winds. After escaping, I was underwater at 180 ft when bam..Thought it was a mine, but it was one of Duc's MAD planes. I had 80% damage. I about got to base, Manus, when it was switched to Subic, so turn around and head back through the San Bern. I plotted and ran into a small island in a narrow strait and died anyway.

I figured it was time to quit for the night.

Thrair · 04-08-11, 08:15 PM

My apologies man. It can be hard to convey emotion and tone through text, which can result in miss-communications.

Further, I play WoW..... trust me. Go on those forums some time. You are quickly ingrained with a thorough sense of cynicism and mistrust, and begin to see rudeness and bad attitude even where it might not exist.

So, again, my apologies for jumpin to conclusions.

As a side note, I too hate those tiny little islands in the middle of sod-all that don't show up on the maps unless you comb the map over with the highest zoom and the magnifying class up your wazoo.

Armistead · 04-08-11, 08:29 PM

Oh, least IGD doesn't go around correcting everyones spelling...

I'm goin' down · 04-08-11, 08:38 PM

Activate OM/OMEGU/KIUB. You will be an ocean away from the Duc of Death. Plus, if you are like my crew, you will never see any targets other than 330 ton steamers. Why? Because the Brits are all over the sky. Plus, the torpedeos settngs and crew ranks are all in German and there is no Position Keeper, so being confused is par for the course. Just come up for air every once in awhile and you will never miss the dinner bell. (Ahem! (Clearing voice and starts singing) "It's a long way to Tipperaree."

What? Yes! Of course I took all of my medication! Do you think I am a crazy person who does not take his meds?! (Now singing Lily Marlene.)

Sandman_28054 · 04-10-11, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.

Wow!

I wasn't expecting my comment to upset so many.

I've been playing SH3 since a year after it came out, and every once in a while I still get caught and sunk.

I played SH4 for a long time until I upgraded to SH4 Gold.

You mean to tell me that not one of the Captians here after all this time playing don't make a mistake and get sunk?

I guess its just me then.

Hum...

I'm goin' down · 04-10-11, 10:16 AM

If you do not go into harm's way, you are not testing your skills or the limits of the mod. Practicing by replaying a mission is a way to expedite the process. I''ve reached the point with the supermods that I live with the results (or should I say, live and die with the results.)

04-08-11, 08:05 AM	#2
Overkill Frogman Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 302 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	No good deed... __________________

04-08-11, 09:43 AM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Oh, no!!!! Overkill has Compulsive Tweaking Disorder (CTD). I know one other person who has this and it leads to terminal insanity! CTD kills! By the way, in Ducimus' FAQ that nobody reads he clearly says that you are to tweak to your liking, just don't complain to him if you don't like the results. Many times in the FAQ he even tells you how to change his settings. Still, the spirit of TMO is savagery. If you kill the spirit then what reason is there to run TMO at all? Might as well load up Beery's last version of RFB where you could sit at periscope depth shooting torpedoes, take multiple hits from depth charges and never get sunk. Basically, what the difference is is that RFB strives for realism of result, not matter how unrealistic that makes player behavior and TMO seeks realistic player behavior, not matter how unrealistic that makes the rest of the game. I don't see how it's possible to achieve both. But the fact is that one of five submariners were killed in the war. That's a sobering statistic the made the participants very afraid. In order to have a realistic simulation you must introduce the very real possibility that you might not survive "routine" operations. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

04-08-11, 10:14 AM	#4
Wilcke The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,441 Downloads: 234 Uploads: 0	Look at it this way, it was and is very difficult to capture what Ducimus noted the "unknown factors' and " the fog of war" in this sim. We have all read the books, seen the videos and know everything there is to know about the IJN, the bad torpedoes, we get to ignore Admiral Lockwood's orders and admonishments. So TMO makes up for all that by adding back that 'fear', so you are literally on the razors edge every time you decide to make an attack. Its good stuff! __________________ Wilcke **For the best in Fleet Boats go to: Submarine Sim Central. http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php Check out: A Brief Introduction to the Pacific Submarine War by Ducimus http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128185 Operation Monsun plus OMEGU, the #1 ATO Solution for SH4! Signature Art by Gunfighter**

04-08-11, 04:59 PM	#6
Overkill Frogman Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 302 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	I guess if you wanted it to be more "realistic" every time you're sunk you could always trap yourself in the shower and then flush your head a couple'a times in the toilet until you pass out. __________________

04-08-11, 05:24 PM	#7
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I just have the wife walk in and throw a cup of water in my face. She seems to enjoy it and, well, it adds to the immersion effect. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

04-08-11, 07:23 AM	#1
Sandman_28054 Captain Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 547 Downloads: 279 Uploads: 0	I'm not using RSRD, but I am using TMO 2. As it is stated, some like it easy, and some like it hard. I don't like to tweek the settings because it makes me try to develop tactics to defeat them. I always save with first contact with a convoy or Task Force. This way, if I set up for an attack and I'm discovered, if they depth charge me to oblivion, I can load the save and try again. I started a new career three days ago, Lt. Commander Sam Gamewell. I was ordered to patrol within 108 miles of Convoy College for 4 days. Well I know where the attack on Manila is going to tke place and from what direction. I placed myself right in front of the lead destroyer. Sure enough, I was picked up and three DD's came straight for me. I found out that when they are within 1500-1000 yards of me, I can "crash dive" and turn either 20 degrees to port or starboard until the DD's pass, get back on course and order "Periscope Depth" and come up usually with one or two of the DD's directly behind me. If I time it just right, I can sink them leaving just one more between me and the convoy. Then its just a matter or picking them apart. This don't always work, but sometimes it does.

04-08-11, 07:18 PM	#10
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Don't feel bad IGD. After my last patrol, I spent 3 hours evading my elite set escorts, banging away at me with 15 mph winds. After escaping, I was underwater at 180 ft when bam..Thought it was a mine, but it was one of Duc's MAD planes. I had 80% damage. I about got to base, Manus, when it was switched to Subic, so turn around and head back through the San Bern. I plotted and ran into a small island in a narrow strait and died anyway. I figured it was time to quit for the night.

04-08-11, 08:15 PM	#11
Thrair Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 102 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	My apologies man. It can be hard to convey emotion and tone through text, which can result in miss-communications. Further, I play WoW..... trust me. Go on those forums some time. You are quickly ingrained with a thorough sense of cynicism and mistrust, and begin to see rudeness and bad attitude even where it might not exist. So, again, my apologies for jumpin to conclusions. As a side note, I too hate those tiny little islands in the middle of sod-all that don't show up on the maps unless you comb the map over with the highest zoom and the magnifying class up your wazoo.

04-08-11, 08:29 PM	#12
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Oh, least IGD doesn't go around correcting everyones spelling...

04-08-11, 08:38 PM	#13
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Easy solution Activate OM/OMEGU/KIUB. You will be an ocean away from the Duc of Death. Plus, if you are like my crew, you will never see any targets other than 330 ton steamers. Why? Because the Brits are all over the sky. Plus, the torpedeos settngs and crew ranks are all in German and there is no Position Keeper, so being confused is par for the course. Just come up for air every once in awhile and you will never miss the dinner bell. (Ahem! (Clearing voice and starts singing) "It's a long way to Tipperaree." What? Yes! Of course I took all of my medication! Do you think I am a crazy person who does not take his meds?! (Now singing Lily Marlene.) Last edited by I'm goin' down; 04-08-11 at 11:33 PM.

04-10-11, 10:16 AM	#15
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	If you do not go into harm's way, you are not testing your skills or the limits of the mod. Practicing by replaying a mission is a way to expedite the process. I''ve reached the point with the supermods that I live with the results (or should I say, live and die with the results.)