Problem of Omniscient Destroyers in TMO

Rockin Robbins · 03-31-11, 01:28 PM

My research shows that Japanese DDs in TMO have Superman on board. He uses his x-ray vision very well. They will often depth charge you with deadly precision and never ping you. TMO has a deviant personality and it isn't very nice about it.

All I can say is that although for somebody new, TMO seems possessed of Satan, and it may be

, Satan can be dealt with successfully. Just not 100% of the time......

Thrair · 04-05-11, 03:47 PM

Been said many a time, TMO does not result in realistic AI. It results in tough AI.
In TMO, sometimes The Computer is a Cheating Bastard. And it will feed on your tears.

I've occasionally been rumbled by DDs when they had no logical right to know I was anywhere nearby. But in such cases, I jot it down to what would, in real life, be termed "****ing ****ty *** luck!".

Perhaps a tired midshipman tripped and had some heavy equipment land on exposed metal, perhaps a german POW was onboard tapping out morse code on a bunk with a spoon, etc.

I actually like how the DDs in TMO sometimes catch wind of me for no reason.

Why? Because it introduces an element of uncertainty. Even if I do everything right, they might still catch wind. To me, this keeps it interesting.

Your mileage may vary, ofc, so you might want to try out the easier AI mod Ducimus (read: god's roomate) cooked up.

rein1705 · 04-05-11, 05:51 PM

Me VS TMO Destroyers

Overkill · 04-07-11, 03:46 PM

This should help you out with the destroyers that see all...

Go into the SHIV directory under Data/Cfg and open the Sim file using Note Pad. Make sure that you open the Properties for the Sim file and set the permissions to allow for all users so the changes you make to the file will save.

Once there you'll change Hydrophone and Sonar settings to look like this:

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.15 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=12 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;0.35 ;0.25 ;[>=0]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=3.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 3 equals signal reduction to 33%

[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.05 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=15 ;[s]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=5.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 5 equals signal reduction to 20%

Rockin Robbins · 04-07-11, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overkill

This should help you out with the destroyers that see all...

BOOOOOOOOOOO!

Yeah, make the ultimate game of warfare into playing Frisbee with yourself. You can play submarines, but you aren't allowed to have any explosives in the torpedoes, the opposition will use leaky rubber rafts with no weapons of any kind. And one more thing. Water isn't allowed. Somebody might drown.

This ain't supposed to be a girlie game! Bring on the real Japanese Navy! It's war and we're up to the challenge. Or perhaps not. Why not just decide the conflict over a nice game of cooperative Frisbee.

Ducimus · 04-07-11, 06:41 PM

The subject of the AI in TMO (in general) is one of those things that has gone off and assumed a life of its own. No matter what i do with it, somebody will be upset with me. However, my spidey sense tells me, most people are fine with it, and would be disappointed if it was anything else instead of what it currently is. So at this point, I don't dare touch it anymore then I already have.

Besides, as cited in the PDF that hardly anyone reads, TMO defines realism by player behavior. Is the player having the same worries and fears as a real sub captain would? One thing to remember is these sims are environment's that are repetitious and hard fixed to work within measured parameters. Once you know what those boundries are, the game will become dull.

Evading the AI is like threading a needle. How hard it is depends on how small the eye of the needle is. All the AI settings in TMO do, is make the eye of the needle smaller, so it is much harder to thread. With practice, even this added challenge will become dull and mundane.

EDIT:
And for the record, when I tuned the AI, i specifically tuned it to not be what i refer to as "Atlantic Hard". In some ways i almost wish i was modding for the ATO, as i could have had free license to go full tilt instead of holding back.

Armistead · 04-07-11, 07:15 PM

I think your goal of TMO should be to put tonnage scores in line with the real war. Course, I run RSRD, which changes things.

I did change the crew ratings over RSRD as you told me and it helped a lot. The difference between rating 2's and 4's makes a huge difference. The added gun range also helped a lot.

It appears your version of MAD works over RSRD. Late war planes dump charges, but seems you let one charge much deeper. I've had my ship destroyed at 200 ft. Before, I might get mild damage at 150 ft.

I did add several sub hunter elite groups, helps some.

The problem is as you stated, once you learn the AI, you can find ways to beat it and things can get dull. The changes of TMO 2.1 were good changes.

Wish lurker was around to update RSRD, but slowly I'm figuring out how to do it correctly.

03-31-11, 01:28 PM	#1
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	My research shows that Japanese DDs in TMO have Superman on board. He uses his x-ray vision very well. They will often depth charge you with deadly precision and never ping you. TMO has a deviant personality and it isn't very nice about it. All I can say is that although for somebody new, TMO seems possessed of Satan, and it may be , Satan can be dealt with successfully. Just not 100% of the time...... __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

04-05-11, 05:51 PM	#3
rein1705 Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: somewhere in the Past. Posts: 582 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 0	Me VS TMO Destroyers __________________ "Diesel Pig" Not so long ago... Last edited by rein1705; 04-05-11 at 09:06 PM.

04-07-11, 03:46 PM	#4
Overkill Frogman Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 302 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	This should help you out with the destroyers that see all... Go into the SHIV directory under Data/Cfg and open the Sim file using Note Pad. Make sure that you open the Properties for the Sim file and set the permissions to allow for all users so the changes you make to the file will save. Once there you'll change Hydrophone and Sonar settings to look like this: [Hydrophone] Detection time=5 ;[s] Sensitivity=0.15 ;(0..1) Height factor=0 ;[m] Waves factor=0.5 ;1.0 ;[>=0] Speed factor=12 ;[kt] Noise factor=1.0 ;0.35 ;0.25 ;[>=0] Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=3.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 3 equals signal reduction to 33% [Sonar] Detection time=5 ;[s] Sensitivity=0.05 ;(0..1) Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0] Speed factor=15 ;[kt] Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2] Lose time=15 ;[s] Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=5.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 5 equals signal reduction to 20% __________________

04-05-11, 03:47 PM	#2
Thrair Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 102 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Been said many a time, TMO does not result in realistic AI. It results in tough AI. In TMO, sometimes The Computer is a Cheating Bastard. And it will feed on your tears. I've occasionally been rumbled by DDs when they had no logical right to know I was anywhere nearby. But in such cases, I jot it down to what would, in real life, be termed "**ing ty * luck!". Perhaps a tired midshipman tripped and had some heavy equipment land on exposed metal, perhaps a german POW was onboard tapping out morse code on a bunk with a spoon, etc. I actually like how the DDs in TMO sometimes catch wind of me for no reason. Why? Because it introduces an element of uncertainty. Even if I do everything right, they might still catch wind. To me, this keeps it interesting. Your mileage may vary, ofc, so you might want to try out the easier AI mod Ducimus (read: god's roomate) cooked up.

04-07-11, 06:41 PM	#6
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The subject of the AI in TMO (in general) is one of those things that has gone off and assumed a life of its own. No matter what i do with it, somebody will be upset with me. However, my spidey sense tells me, most people are fine with it, and would be disappointed if it was anything else instead of what it currently is. So at this point, I don't dare touch it anymore then I already have. Besides, as cited in the PDF that hardly anyone reads, TMO defines realism by player behavior. Is the player having the same worries and fears as a real sub captain would? One thing to remember is these sims are environment's that are repetitious and hard fixed to work within measured parameters. Once you know what those boundries are, the game will become dull. Evading the AI is like threading a needle. How hard it is depends on how small the eye of the needle is. All the AI settings in TMO do, is make the eye of the needle smaller, so it is much harder to thread. With practice, even this added challenge will become dull and mundane. EDIT: And for the record, when I tuned the AI, i specifically tuned it to not be what i refer to as "Atlantic Hard". In some ways i almost wish i was modding for the ATO, as i could have had free license to go full tilt instead of holding back.

04-07-11, 07:15 PM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I think your goal of TMO should be to put tonnage scores in line with the real war. Course, I run RSRD, which changes things. I did change the crew ratings over RSRD as you told me and it helped a lot. The difference between rating 2's and 4's makes a huge difference. The added gun range also helped a lot. It appears your version of MAD works over RSRD. Late war planes dump charges, but seems you let one charge much deeper. I've had my ship destroyed at 200 ft. Before, I might get mild damage at 150 ft. I did add several sub hunter elite groups, helps some. The problem is as you stated, once you learn the AI, you can find ways to beat it and things can get dull. The changes of TMO 2.1 were good changes. Wish lurker was around to update RSRD, but slowly I'm figuring out how to do it correctly.