I got OWNED last night. Some insights, opinions and questions.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Magnum

It will not become active until.. late 41, not sure the date exactly. First time I got detected by enemy radar was in Black Pit campaign. And it turned very ugly in short time.

i think you are wright ... i just checked the eqp for Tribal... here are 2 lines that becom active after 1941:

[Equipment 12]
NodeName=W01
LinkName=DCRack
StartDate=19410601
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 14]
NodeName=W02
LinkName=DCRack
StartDate=19410601
EndDate=19451231

the radar maybe is in one of these DCRacks... what do you think?

[oscar19681]

What exaclty do i tone down in the init.aix the reduce the escort difficulty?

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by oscar19681

What exaclty do i tone down in the init.aix the reduce the escort difficulty?

the lines in yellow:

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Sonar will not detect you at scope depth, so don't go deep after you release the torpedoes. I back off at max speed until the first torpedo impact, in the next second to that I stop engines or I continue at silent running.. depends on the range.

That's not true actually Magnum, the passive/active sonar cone is at its biggest at PD depth, the shallower you are the easier you are to pick up.

[oscar19681]

Originally Posted by stoianm

the lines in yellow:

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

Cool but if doest have the min and max lines in my text , mine looks like this

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

[Bilge_Rat]

some have been answered already, but some comments:

Originally Posted by vonCrandall

The convoy consists of 12 merchants and 1 lone destroyer riding shotgun in front of them all. Given this fact, I decide to engage them now

I would have done the same.

First nothing. He just keeps chugging along, and then within 15-20 seconds, he makes a hard left and straightens out at what likes like DIRECTLY at me. First question: I did fire 2 of the steam torpedo's because of the speed and distance of the convoy; can a destroyer, that is not THAT far off the waterline see a small steam trail in the water from 2km away?? Is this what made him turn - he didn't have a 'good idea' where I was, he was literally aimed directly at me.

I think it's a combination of factors. First, it appears the escort AI is programmed to head towards the general direction of where the torps comes from after they hit and start searching. Second, after the torpedo hits, the escort's state should change from "passive" (i.e. just another boring day at sea) to "alert" (i.e. finally, some action!). When that happens, the range of all its sensors increase including the visual sensor (i.e. the grey cone). If your periscope is inside the grey cone, the escort may see it and come charging over.

example:



Here I am just outside the "grey" visual cone with my scope just barely above the sea surface and the visual cones of the escorts still extends out to around 1,500 meters. This cone is affected by sea state, alert state and how high your scope extends, so he could easily spot your scope in calm seas at 2 km, especially if it is fully extended.

At this point I am watching the yellow detection circle. As the destroyer (Class A) is starting to do random circles in the area and I start hearing distant depth charge explosions. Question 2: Why does NOONE in my crew tell me when there are depth charges in the friggen water?

that is not in the game, and I am fairly sure it was not possible in RL, despite what the movies show.

My tactic to get away is fairly simple. I pick a general direction I want to head to, in this case is was between North and East. I turn my rudder left or right at times, but keep within 00 and 090. Whenever the DD is close and there are depth charge explosions, I go flank ahead, I turn my rudder (keeping within N and E for this example) and go down another 10-20m. Whenever I think the last depth charge just went off, I go back to all slow and rudder amidships. Question 3: How long can the destroyer not 'hear' me after a depth charge goes off?

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

An hour passes. No damage and he barely, if at all, even got close. The problem is, he won't go away. I am almost on the bottom of the seafloor at this point. Anytime he drifts off and I have a good size distance gap between us, his sonar begins searching and almost always finds me even thought I am at an almost 180 degree slim profile and 3m from the ocean floor. Question 4: How do you get away from the sonar? Did I just have bad luck and 140m wasn't deep enough?

the passive (yellow) and active (red) sonar cone go smaller as you go deeper, slower, more silent. Your tactic is good, 140 meters "may" not be deep enough if he is waiting right on top of you, which they will do with IRAI.

I cannot for the life of me evade this destroyer. After 2 hours I start with other tricks; make ALOT of noise and have him come to depth charge me only to pull a 180 and go totally silent in the other direction, sit on the floor at All Stop, try going multiple directions after being depth charged - nothing works. Question 5: If I am in the yellow detection circle on the minimap, does this mean I have a good chance of being detected, or that I WILL 100% be detected? This is what I am very curious about because he kept me in the yellow circle quite often. But then when I got out (or it shrank when his screws were facing me) I would go all stop and he would just turn around like he always knew where I was.

no, when you are in the yellow cone, it takes a certian amount of time before the escort can "hear" you, although I think it is only around 15 seconds. It also appears to be affected by other factors, such as your position relative to the escort (i.e. facing or broadside) and the escorts skill (i.e. veteran/green) and alertness state (i.e. passive/alert).

On the second part, after the escort "loses" you, it will keep searching for a fixed period of time, 15 mins in stock, but I think (30-180 mins ?) in IRAI. It will also, I believe, begin a spiral search pattern around the area where it lost you to try to reacquire contact. If it does not find you within that time it will leave. If it does find you within that time, then everything starts all over again.

IRAI also has a "fatigue" script where over time the escort's crew will become tired and less effective, although that may take 12-24 hours to have an impact.

New sonar contact, warship, slow speed, long distance! Wait, what? What the hell is this?

Apparently I don't know if I just happened to be in the path of a DD patrol or if this pain in the ass destroyer phoned home for help but there are now FOUR (4) more destroyers heading directly to my location from about 10km away. How the hell did this happen?

As TDW answered, other escorts in the area will converge.

In terms of tactics (since I also play with IRAI), if I am dealing with 1 escort, I would stay at PD and try to sink the escort rather than going deep.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by oscar19681

Cool but if doest have the min and max lines in my text , mine looks like this

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

install the version v30 of IRAI and you will have the same lines

[oscar19681]

What should i edit the lines to now? I currently being eaten up by 3 destoyers that wont let me go and i think its better to update and install the newer version when in port.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by oscar19681

What should i edit the lines to now? I currently being eaten up by 3 destoyers that wont let me go and i think its better to update and install the newer version when in port.

if you played at level 1 untill now (wich is almoust imposible) than i sugest you to live the IRAIv30 by default - you can install anytime.. in port or in patrol

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

On the second part, after the escort "loses" you, it will keep searching for a fixed period of time, 15 mins in stock, but I think (30-180 mins ?) in IRAI. It will also, I believe, begin a spiral search pattern around the area where it lost you to try to reacquire contact. If it does not find you within that time it will leave. If it does find you within that time, then everything starts all over again.

Good post Bilge Rat, very informative

I would also add that if the escorts have lost you and they are searching,
they will also stop searching if the convoy move a certain distance away.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

the passive (yellow) and active (red) sonar cone go smaller as you go deeper, slower, more silent. Your tactic is good, 140 meters "may" not be deep enough if he is waiting right on top of you, which they will do with IRAI.

I did not know that the noise from underwater not affect the escorts... i think i should reconsider my evasions tactics... tnx for informations

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game

Are you saying that maybe you can make that the underwater noise to affect DDs capacity of detection.... i think this will add a lot of immersivity in game

[vonCrandall]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game

This makes me feel a bit better. I was under the impression this was modeled in the game as I feel that it is an important aspect. For some reason I really thought this existed.

Not having the explosions from the DD 'fog' the water for a set amount of time afterward, and me going to full/flank for 15 or 20 seconds at a time during a depth/coarse change while being depth charged explains mostly everything: even if he has lost me, by not having the mechanic to 'fog' the water, I literally screamed HERE I AM!!! everytime I went to full/flank.

This makes perfect sense now as to why the DD wouldn't go away and at times had lost me only to turn around and come to within 1m of my position.

[Bilge_Rat]

I think the reason why it is not as apparent in other SH sims, is because SH5 allows for more sophisticated and realistic behavior of the escorts, as with IRAI.

For example, I was playing SH4 last night, testing some issues with RFB, got caught by an escort which nailed me with DCs. I did an evasive maneuver at flank, went deep and slowed to a crawl. He lost me, failed to regain contact and moved on periodically dropping DCs far from me.

From that, you would be tempted to conclude that the DCs scrambled the water, but it is probably due more to the limitations the game places on the escorts sensors and behavior.

TDW - if you can fix this, it would be fantastic.

[oscar19681]

I noticed that whenever DC explode the yellow sensor circles of the Destoyers decrease . So i think the distortion of the DC,s is implemented it think. Or it might me because of IRAI i,m not shure.

I installed the latest version of IRAI by the way and toned down the destoyers skills a bit. I battled the escorts for 5 to 6 hours game time. This was axillerating to say at leasts. I only had about 140 meters of water to work with and i went as deep as i could. The DC,,s where hitting me bad and i was desperatly looking for deeper water. But everytime when i thought i lost them they caught up with me and the DC,s that did manage to hit me slammed by boat into the ocean floor damaging my pressure hull and damageing my systems that got repaired and damaged again on several occasions. Its something about MO and IRAI that compelled me to keep playing and gave me this desparate DAS BOAT feeling/experience i have been looking for in all the SH series but never quite got. After a while i was wondering if i would ever gonna make it out alive before my co-2 would become dangerous. But really , if you play in real time and try to outsmart the AI in the cat and mouse game in really pays of. And indeed after about 6 hours game time i begon to see gaps in the destoyers search patterns and lost me a couple of times and caught up with me but sooner or later they lost me . Cool thing was 2 of the destoyers went back for the convoy i attacked but one corvette stuck around in an attempt to catch me on the surface. All in all it was the second time where they allmost got me in my SH-5 MO career. ROCK ON!!