Is God the good guy?

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Armistead

how could man know what to believe even if he was sincere in the search.

You made this a statement, when it should have been a question. Still, I will answer it.

Lets look at this from a variety of perspectives. The world as we know it, is some one off of who knows how many trillions of chances? Pretty slim odds. Then you look at how things work - from the macro global environment to the micro, the inner workings of the atom in which science still fails to be able to offer more than just theories.

But lets move on... Lets look at history. Xtianity is based on the Bible, and it has over time proven to be a remarkably accurate historical text. The Elba texts, the "biblical legend) of the Hittite people later substantiated to have existed, the Assyrian king Sargon and his victory at Ashdod, or the existence of Belshazzar and his unique position to offer the third most powerful position in the kingdom. Don't forget the vast copper mines in Jordan that were discovered in 2008 and are now considered to be the Mines of Solomon, though prior to their discovery historians doubted their very existence..... Fairly convincing accuracy....

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

Still not enough? Well, not every person experiences the miracles and blessings of God the same way. You have been blessed, you have experienced miracles, no matter who you are. Yet too often we - in our pride that acts as blinders, fail to recognize them. I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

I wouldn't want anyone to be in that kind of hardship, because pride can be a bear to overcome. But when God looks on you, smiles and holds out His hand to lift you up from your own stupidity - well pretending He doesnt exist is rather difficult.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Lets look at this from a variety of perspectives. The world as we know it, is some one off of who knows how many trillions of chances? Pretty slim odds. Then you look at how things work - from the macro global environment to the micro, the inner workings of the atom in which science still fails to be able to offer more than just theories.

It's my opinion that you're really only looking at it from one perspective. Science isn't about why things are, it's about how things tick.

The Bible could very well be true, but accepting it as truth requires a leap of faith in itself. The answers are self-contained, thus creating the problem of evidence.

But lets move on... Lets look at history. Xtianity is based on the Bible, and it has over time proven to be a remarkably accurate historical text. The Elba texts, the "biblical legend) of the Hittite people later substantiated to have existed, the Assyrian king Sargon and his victory at Ashdod, or the existence of Belshazzar and his unique position to offer the third most powerful position in the kingdom. Don't forget the vast copper mines in Jordan that were discovered in 2008 and are now considered to be the Mines of Solomon, though prior to their discovery historians doubted their very existence..... Fairly convincing accuracy....

Okay, no problem. Several historical references have been proven true. New findings might validate other Biblical claims, even the parting of the Red Sea.

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

And none of the prophetic texts predate Ezra. There is every possibility, especially given who the texts were directed at, that the "prophesies" were written after the fact. I can't prove they were, but there is also no evidence that they weren't.

Still not enough? Well, not every person experiences the miracles and blessings of God the same way. You have been blessed, you have experienced miracles, no matter who you are. Yet too often we - in our pride that acts as blinders, fail to recognize them.

Or not.

I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

Unfortunately, unless the laws of nature are actually and obviously overturned, miracles are only apparent if you believe in them. I've had the opposite experience. Things I accepted as miraculous at the time were later seen to be possibly miracles, possibly random chance. It was that realization - that all the assumptions I had made were just that - that made me realize I don't know anything.

You may be right, but I've come to the conclusion that there is a distinct possibility that we only see the divine because we already believe that way.

I wouldn't want anyone to be in that kind of hardship, because pride can be a bear to overcome. But when God looks on you, smiles and holds out His hand to lift you up from your own stupidity - well pretending He doesnt exist is rather difficult.

And when I see a total lack of real evidence, pretending He does exist becomes impossible. It may be true, but I don't see it.

[Nicolas]

I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

I like when i read things like this, rings a bell and start smiling, i know i share the same faith even with people i don't know and lives far away.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

You made this a statement, when it should have been a question. Still, I will answer it.

Lets look at this from a variety of perspectives. The world as we know it, is some one off of who knows how many trillions of chances? Pretty slim odds. Then you look at how things work - from the macro global environment to the micro, the inner workings of the atom in which science still fails to be able to offer more than just theories.

But lets move on... Lets look at history. Xtianity is based on the Bible, and it has over time proven to be a remarkably accurate historical text. The Elba texts, the "biblical legend) of the Hittite people later substantiated to have existed, the Assyrian king Sargon and his victory at Ashdod, or the existence of Belshazzar and his unique position to offer the third most powerful position in the kingdom. Don't forget the vast copper mines in Jordan that were discovered in 2008 and are now considered to be the Mines of Solomon, though prior to their discovery historians doubted their very existence..... Fairly convincing accuracy....

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

Still not enough? Well, not every person experiences the miracles and blessings of God the same way. You have been blessed, you have experienced miracles, no matter who you are. Yet too often we - in our pride that acts as blinders, fail to recognize them. I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

I wouldn't want anyone to be in that kind of hardship, because pride can be a bear to overcome. But when God looks on you, smiles and holds out His hand to lift you up from your own stupidity - well pretending He doesnt exist is rather difficult.

Science certainly cannot answer all the questions of the universe, but we don't deny science. Beyond that it is a matter of faith and each is subject to his own.

Every person, religious or secular has events in their life that one could deem a miracle or a random event. No different than bad things. Fate can deal hands good or bad, but I've never seen a miracle beyond science, you know, someone raised from the dead, a lost arm regrown. Most acts of great kindness seem to stem from humans, but I would think that's how God would expect us to act.

I studied greek for 2 years in bible college when I was young. As Steve stated, most prophecy was related to another era and was written after the fact, again denominations each define their own views.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

CaptainHaplo, you realy should read [url=http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136]this book[/quote], written bij Israëli scientists.

Or see this docu:

[CaptainHaplo]

Fish,

That book you mentioned postulates that there is no archeological proof of Abraham (for one). I specifically addressed that already - the existence of Abraham - who was born in Ur of the Chaldees - is given historical proof from the Ebla find. He and his birthplace were specifically mentioned in these secular texts. Just because 2 authors of a book want to ignore verifiable fact should give you a hint as to the veracity of their postulations.

The video you provided utilizes one of the authors of the book, so its reasonable to say that his demonstratable bias must be considered when looking at the video.

As for additional archeological proofs, many scholars disputed that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah ever existed. The Ebla tablets also reference these cities, showing that they were known and did in fact exist.

The 1988 discoveries in Tel Ar Amama provides a third party view of the end of the Exodus period. While this does not substantiate the existence of a man named Moses, it does offer proof that the Biblical account of the wanderings (as the Habiru) is accurate.

Believe what you want, but its disinginuous to ignore data that doesn't further the "debunking" some want.