Is God the good guy?

[Growler]

Originally Posted by privateer

Then your pretty much saying all Soldiers that eliminate Enemy Targets
are Mass Murderers or Serial Killers.

From some else's perspective, that could very well be considered true. That's what I'm saying - that titles are arbitrary. What we call a hero, someone could very well call a mass murderer.

AH! So it's perspective!
Just what I said.
So God (If he exists) would be outside our perspective in his actions.
And as he is God?
We have no place to judge Him.
We are Ants or Spiders or lower.

[Task Force]

so if we are his "kids" that he supposedly loves, then he can and should kill us as much as he wants at any time? and there's nothing wrong with it?

*so our life's are worthless and we are just his toys he can destroy at any time, and its ok, he can cause as much pain and suffering, and its perfectly fine.

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by privateer

Then your pretty much saying all Soldiers that eliminate Enemy Targets
are Mass Murderers or Serial Killers.

Yes they are, but legalized killers, if their side wins.

[Feuer Frei!]

Hahaha i found the video quiet funny really.
Questioning the bible is not for us to do.
If, and i say if you are a true believer, why would you find the need to question God's word?
It is only the non-believers that would do that, ofc.
Or, in the case of denominations, change the words of God to suit your own lifestyles and beliefs.
That's why you have different denominations. What gets me is that these so called believers believe in the word of God, they believe in him. Yet they change and modify his words to suit themselves.
I understand he is trying to question us Christians and make us question ourselves, and to be quiet honest i don't need to question the word of God, nor do i need to answer to all the non-believers out there whether God exists, or whether God is the lesser power and the Devil is the greater power.
He's basically saying that it's a book and how can we believe it.
And it's normal to fall into the old and tired arguement with the Natural Disasters thing, where many people are killed but a few survive.
The old arguement on why God didn't stop the disasters or why he didn't save people.
And on the point of him saying that God put us on this earth to endure suffering, oh dear. I've heard some interesting arguements against Christianity but this one i haven't heard before.
Yes the suffering is endless, it's only going to get worse in fact.
The Bible predicts this.
God didn't create this world to have us suffer, or to kill people in disasters, or to allow the suffering of pain and loss of life.
God created us equal, with a free mind to chose between right and wrong.

[Armistead]

What I don't understand, if God's plan for man was the garden, what happened. God knows all beforehand, so knew Satan would fall, but created him. When he fell, why not destroy him then, place him on another planet, take away his power. What did God do, placed him on earth with all his power and where does he show up...in the garden with Adam and Eve..and then that tree.
The story goes Adam and Eve doomed all mankind, seems they were set up to me. If God's perfect plan was the garden, what does it say if mere man can mess it up. Seems if plan A fails, God goes to plan B, so can we ever trust a plan A?

I just say "I don't know." If God's plan was to doom the mass of us to hell to be tortured forever to have a few in heaven.....not what I would call love. If you go by what each religion says...whoever is wrong result in the mass of us burning alive. The fact is culture and human factors play the role on what most believe. If all the christians in the USA were born in Iran they would be muslims.

The flood, no one righteous was found but Noah and his kids. I imagine there were many other kids...were they that bad they needed drowning?

In the end, all sounds like something man made up.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by privateer

AH! So it's perspective!
Just what I said.
So God (If he exists) would be outside our perspective in his actions.
And as he is God?
We have no place to judge Him.
We are Ants or Spiders or lower.

Here's the problem, the fundamental fallacy of religion, neatly summed up by Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I'm not even sure if I like being termed a 'Legalized Killer'.
I was a Soldier that Eliminated Targets assigned to me.
I've never considered myself a 'Killer' in anyway.

As for 'God' thinking of us as Children?
That was what someone may have written.
It may be thier 'thoughts' on the subject.
God never wrote a single thing I've ever heard of.
So it's all suspect as I see it.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Armistead

What I don't understand, if God's plan for man was the garden, what happened.

What happened? Man failed. Man succumbed to temptation. Adam failed, and with that Mankind was left to their own devices, to chose between right and wrong. Mankind is still failing. Look around you.

When he fell, why not destroy him then, place him on another planet, take away his power. What did God do, placed him on earth with all his power and where does he show up...in the garden with Adam and Eve..and then that tree.

Yes he allowed it, it was a test, not in the sense that you or i think, a 'playing games' sort of test, no, this was not in that sense.

The story goes Adam and Eve doomed all mankind, seems they were set up to me.

Not at all, no setup here, Adam still had a choice, chose Apple, or chose to go without. No force was used to have Adam succumb to evil. None whatsoever, he chose, with his own free mind, which God had given him. So no setup.

I just say "I don't know." If God's plan was to doom the mass of us to hell to be tortured forever to have a few in heaven.....not what I would call love.

It's not him that is dooming us to Hell, as you claim, it is us. He has nothing to do with what we chose, he has said as much, that he has given us free mind and spirit, to do as we please, to chose from right or wrong, to chose from killing one another, or to chose from loving one another.
Surely you cannot tell me that it's God's fault for the murder, the rape, the pilliging, the centuries of mankind killing oneanother off, etc etc.

If you go by what each religion says...whoever is wrong result in the mass of us burning alive.

Yes, denominations, i don't have much faith in them.

The fact is culture and human factors play the role on what most believe.

Only to a certain extent, Human Nature actually supercedes your point here.

[Armistead]

Man failed, then his design must've been flawed. He didn't fall until the most powrful angel was allowed to trick him, so we blame man. Sort of unfair one man falls and dooms everyone else.
That's like me killing someone and your kids go to the gas chamber for my sin.


Free will...saying choose me or I'll torture you forever. No man would choose hell, someone had to make it and throw us in there.

I could fall in love with a girl if I was a nut and put a gun to her head and told her to say she loves me or I'll pull the trigger...I'm sure she would say she loves me. That's what most of man does choosing salvation.

Hell, nothing but a tool created by man to control his fellow man with fear.
With the many religions, 1000's of denominations and even more doctrines how could man know what to believe even if he was sincere in the search.
So he could be sincere, yet still doomed if he wasnt able to wade through all the beliefs that have changed over and over depending on what culture was in power.

Most believe what they walk into and never question or simply born into it.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Man failed, then his design must've been flawed.

Flawed? Or not perfect? It's no secret that man wasn't created as perfect. So?
Thank God( no pun intended) that we weren't created perfect. We were created to be equal.

He didn't fall until the most powrful angel was allowed to trick him, so we blame man.

Of course we blame man, goes back to my original point i was making about the pureness of man. Or in a lot of cases, the lack of.

Free will...saying choose me or I'll torture you forever. No man would choose hell, someone had to make it and throw us in there.

No, free will to chose between right and wrong, sure, it's not as clear-cut as that, or is it?
No man would chose hell, correct, but, a lot have haven't they? There's plenty of sinning going on in this world. And in relation to God saying indirectly or directly: I will torture you if you don't behave? Far from it, it's once again up to us to decide what we want out of life.

Hell, nothing but a tool created by man to control his fellow man with fear.

It's not Hell that i fear. Far from it.

With the many religions, 1000's of denominations and even more doctrines how could man know what to believe even if he was sincere in the search.

Easy really, if you are a true believer. The Holy Bible.
Once again, it goes back to my earlier point(s) about Denominations, and why they are wrong.

So he could be sincere, yet still doomed if he wasnt able to wade through all the beliefs that have changed over and over depending on what culture was in power.

Yes, many attempt to be sincere, or have a honest and genuine motif for adopting the Christian faith.
Once again, see my point before about Denominations.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Armistead

how could man know what to believe even if he was sincere in the search.

You made this a statement, when it should have been a question. Still, I will answer it.

Lets look at this from a variety of perspectives. The world as we know it, is some one off of who knows how many trillions of chances? Pretty slim odds. Then you look at how things work - from the macro global environment to the micro, the inner workings of the atom in which science still fails to be able to offer more than just theories.

But lets move on... Lets look at history. Xtianity is based on the Bible, and it has over time proven to be a remarkably accurate historical text. The Elba texts, the "biblical legend) of the Hittite people later substantiated to have existed, the Assyrian king Sargon and his victory at Ashdod, or the existence of Belshazzar and his unique position to offer the third most powerful position in the kingdom. Don't forget the vast copper mines in Jordan that were discovered in 2008 and are now considered to be the Mines of Solomon, though prior to their discovery historians doubted their very existence..... Fairly convincing accuracy....

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

Still not enough? Well, not every person experiences the miracles and blessings of God the same way. You have been blessed, you have experienced miracles, no matter who you are. Yet too often we - in our pride that acts as blinders, fail to recognize them. I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

I wouldn't want anyone to be in that kind of hardship, because pride can be a bear to overcome. But when God looks on you, smiles and holds out His hand to lift you up from your own stupidity - well pretending He doesnt exist is rather difficult.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Lets look at this from a variety of perspectives. The world as we know it, is some one off of who knows how many trillions of chances? Pretty slim odds. Then you look at how things work - from the macro global environment to the micro, the inner workings of the atom in which science still fails to be able to offer more than just theories.

It's my opinion that you're really only looking at it from one perspective. Science isn't about why things are, it's about how things tick.

The Bible could very well be true, but accepting it as truth requires a leap of faith in itself. The answers are self-contained, thus creating the problem of evidence.

But lets move on... Lets look at history. Xtianity is based on the Bible, and it has over time proven to be a remarkably accurate historical text. The Elba texts, the "biblical legend) of the Hittite people later substantiated to have existed, the Assyrian king Sargon and his victory at Ashdod, or the existence of Belshazzar and his unique position to offer the third most powerful position in the kingdom. Don't forget the vast copper mines in Jordan that were discovered in 2008 and are now considered to be the Mines of Solomon, though prior to their discovery historians doubted their very existence..... Fairly convincing accuracy....

Okay, no problem. Several historical references have been proven true. New findings might validate other Biblical claims, even the parting of the Red Sea.

But lets say you need more. Look at the prophecy of the Bible. Israel was to be divided, then Israel and Judah would be scattered. Both happened. There are numerous other prophecies that have proven true, and some that have not yet - so the jury is out on those.

And none of the prophetic texts predate Ezra. There is every possibility, especially given who the texts were directed at, that the "prophesies" were written after the fact. I can't prove they were, but there is also no evidence that they weren't.

Still not enough? Well, not every person experiences the miracles and blessings of God the same way. You have been blessed, you have experienced miracles, no matter who you are. Yet too often we - in our pride that acts as blinders, fail to recognize them.

Or not.

I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

Unfortunately, unless the laws of nature are actually and obviously overturned, miracles are only apparent if you believe in them. I've had the opposite experience. Things I accepted as miraculous at the time were later seen to be possibly miracles, possibly random chance. It was that realization - that all the assumptions I had made were just that - that made me realize I don't know anything.

You may be right, but I've come to the conclusion that there is a distinct possibility that we only see the divine because we already believe that way.

I wouldn't want anyone to be in that kind of hardship, because pride can be a bear to overcome. But when God looks on you, smiles and holds out His hand to lift you up from your own stupidity - well pretending He doesnt exist is rather difficult.

And when I see a total lack of real evidence, pretending He does exist becomes impossible. It may be true, but I don't see it.

[Nicolas]

I have been doubly blessed personally, because not only has the Lord blessed my life, He made sure I was in situations where I didn't have any choice but to see His hand in it. When you get to that point, you can't deny it. Sure, you still fight and always will, but you can't deny it deep down. Tell the world it wasn't a miracle, but you know in your heart it was. That's how you know - not only that God exists, but that He loves you.

I like when i read things like this, rings a bell and start smiling, i know i share the same faith even with people i don't know and lives far away.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Good point, how come the devil does not have a book of his own?

Because he is just a (fallen) angel, not God himself. Or maybe he's a lousy writer ?

In the Yezidic culture god has long since absolved Mr. Lucifer's deeds, so his reputation and status has been fully restored .

In the protestant religion (Lutheran) there is no purgatory and no hell, so no devil as well. Jesus took the sins of the world and its people on his shoulders, forever.


Choose what you want to believe