Israel... Why them???

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

so the usa wouldn't count as civilized until 1964. bollocks. there's a difference between "western" and "civilized." Not exclusive terms, but not the same, either. so to claim that islamic countries are uncivilized because they don't conform to your own standards or conceits is misusing the term.

No Equal Protection was granted in 1868 (although not enforced in many states, so those states were breaking the law) and Universal Suffrage in 1920. Yes my view of what is civilized is influenced by the fact that I’m from a western nation with all those crazy ideas like “rights� left over from the Greeks and Romans but subjugating an entire segment of your nations population by not allowing them to vote or drive doesn’t make that nation civilized. Don’t confuse Modernized with Civilized. Compare each nation to its peers and you will see, Yemen against UK? Pre-invasion Afghanistan against USA? Those places almost had no rule of law for crying out loud!