Two qucik ones about Hospital and Capital Ships

[HotiBomba]

1. I just wondering since i never found Hospital ship in enemy harbor - if i sink it in enemy harbor - would game threat it as an neutral target?

2. Any ideas where i should search for Capital ships in Indian Ocean? I'm in late 1943. and just sailed east, finished few patrols and still not find nothing bigger form escort destroyers? any help? Thanks a lot!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by HotiBomba

1. I just wondering since i never found Hospital ship in enemy harbor - if i sink it in enemy harbor - would game threat it as an neutral target?

2. Any ideas where i should search for Capital ships in Indian Ocean? I'm in late 1943. and just sailed east, finished few patrols and still not find nothing bigger form escort destroyers? any help? Thanks a lot!

1. Ships are considered enemy, neutral, or friendly based on what nation's flag they sail under, not their location. Hospital ships, though, are ALWAYS neutral. They are off limits wherever you find them, and unless you have deliberately edited out the renown hit for sinking one, doing so will likely result in you returning to base to find out that your career is over.

2. Never tried out the Indian Ocean. I'm sure it's possible to interrogate the Mission Editor to see what's scripted where and when, but no doubt there will be others here you have experience in that part of the world and can give you some pointers.

[HotiBomba]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

1. Ships are considered enemy, neutral, or friendly based on what nation's flag they sail under, not their location. Hospital ships, though, are ALWAYS neutral. They are off limits wherever you find them, and unless you have deliberately edited out the renown hit for sinking one, doing so will likely result in you returning to base to find out that your career is over.

2. Never tried out the Indian Ocean. I'm sure it's possible to interrogate the Mission Editor to see what's scripted where and when, but no doubt there will be others here you have experience in that part of the world and can give you some pointers.

Danke, frau kaleun

[frau kaleun]

Gern geschehen!

[Bakkels]

Wow, is the renown penalty that big? Didn't know, and now I'm glad I didn't run into a hospital ship yet. I could (and probably would) have easily got it mixed up with a troop transport and sunk it the minute I came across it...
But actually pretty cool realism wise IMO that you get a big penalty for sinking a hospital ship.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

Wow, is the renown penalty that big? Didn't know, and now I'm glad I didn't run into a hospital ship yet. I could (and probably would) have easily got it mixed up with a troop transport and sunk it the minute I came across it...
But actually pretty cool realism wise IMO that you get a big penalty for sinking a hospital ship.

Hospital ships in the latest supermods are lit up, unlike troopships, which sailed blacked out. If your target has running lights on, break off your attack - it's likely something off limits.

[frau kaleun]

I can't remember the exact number, but you would take a huge renown hit for it compared to sinking any other ship. In the GWX renown chart I have I think it's valued at -1000, but I'm not sure if that gets multiplied by anything when the game tallies it up. Could be an exaggeration to say it would end your career, but you're sure not gonna gain anything by it and if you're playing realistically it's not something you would ever do. Hospital ships might have your own wounded peeps on board.

[iambecomelife]

As a side note, it's impressive how the WWII Kriegsmarine respected hospital ships, despite serving an atrocious regime. I think there was only one case of a HS in WWII being torpedoed by the Germans, and that was in poor visibility. In contrast, some WWI submariners were brutal (for instance, the "Llandovery Castle" incident, where a hospital ship was sunk and the lifeboats were strafed).

[Gargamel]

The renown hit for "wrongship" in the basic.cfg is -5000. That may not end your career, but it should be close. I would imagine the renown attached to a hospital ship is a huge negative number too. Not even sure what Wrongship is used for anwyays.

[Tinman764]

Makes me wonder why troop ships weren't disguised as hospital ships, or were they?

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by Tinman764

Makes me wonder why troop ships weren't disguised as hospital ships, or were they?

The problem, IIRC, that they are protected under international treaty. BY either attacking or misusing them, you are breaking those treaties.

Secondly, if the enemy finds out, then NONE of your hospital ships are protected, and they are all fair game to be attacked.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Story from Ohio here. I have some colleagues who are Columbus Fire/Medics. We (they) have no issues going into the bad neighborhoods, as the locals know we're there to help, not cause trouble. Franklin County Sheriffs Dept bought one of the FD's heavier rescue rig's they were retiring, and converted it to a SWAT 'troop carrier', but they never repainted it. Once the locals figured out what was going on, ALL ambulances entering those hoods started taking fire. They now have to wait a distance aways, and heavy the heavy guns escort them into certain areas of town.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Tinman764

Makes me wonder why troop ships weren't disguised as hospital ships, or were they?

I'm guessing that using the markings of a hospital ship to disguise an armed vessel of any kind would be a big no-no. For one thing, if it became known that non-protected ships were using such disguises it would put every real 'off limits' ship in jeopardy. Once you did it, the enemy would have every reason to suspect every hospital ship they came across.

The whole point of the protection afforded such ships is that everybody agrees they are off-limits, and plays by the same rules. Break those rules once to your own advantage and you've opened the door for everyone else to do the same and given them justification for it.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

The problem, IIRC, that they are protected under international treaty. BY either attacking or misusing them, you are breaking those treaties.

Secondly, if the enemy finds out, then NONE of your hospital ships are protected, and they are all fair game to be attacked.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Story from Ohio here. I have some colleagues who are Columbus Fire/Medics. We (they) have no issues going into the bad neighborhoods, as the locals know we're there to help, not cause trouble. Franklin County Sheriffs Dept bought one of the FD's heavier rescue rig's they were retiring, and converted it to a SWAT 'troop carrier', but they never repainted it. Once the locals figured out what was going on, ALL ambulances entering those hoods started taking fire. They now have to wait a distance aways, and heavy the heavy guns escort them into certain areas of town.

That's a pretty rotten backhanded way of taking advantage of the people's goodwill. On one hand they're biting the hand that feeds them, but the Police's tactic (seriously doubt that they "accidently" forgot to paint it, but used it in order to gain easy access drawing on the people's goodwill) was seriously underhanded.

It's noble that a Doctor/medic/corpsman will always help a wounded person whether they're friendly or foe; which makes it even more tragic that they're now getting shot at for something they had no part of while still trying to do the same job they were several months ago when everything was kosher.

With Hosptial ships they would also carry allied and enemy casualties on board. Sinking one left you with a good chance that you were killing your own comrades who might also have been on board.

[Raptor]

In 3 years of stock SH3, I have yet to encounter a hospital ship. Are they even modelled in the stock version of SH3?

[sharkbit]

But those pretty red crosses on the side make such good aiming points.

I've only encountered one in my playing time and I did let her go by. IIRC it was at night and she was well lit.