Public Insensitivity? Or is Enough Enough? - Page 2

Feuer Frei! · 02-22-11, 01:20 AM

My thoughts on this is that on the topic of begging for instance is that unless You have been in that situation before moreoften than not you will not give that person money. Like Sailor Steve, i have, many years ago been in a pretty bad situation but, luckily i had family and friends to get me through the bad trot.
Keep in mind that a lot of the beggars or street urchins or whatever you want to call them do not have the support of loved ones. Sure, you may argue that, like Sailor Steve you do have a choice. A choice of going to a refuge for food or the local welfare agencies for food vouchers or such, etc etc.
Easier said than done. Not everyone has the capabilities or means to do that.
Unless you can "relate" to a person being in the dumps, and possibly begging for money or food then it is always difficult to understand and easier even to ridicule and wave away.
On a side-note, what do we class a beggar? Someone purely who is dressed in rags and is filthy and sits on the corner of a street? Or someone who offers entertainment, like a busker or somesuch and has a hat for any donations for his 'services' for want of a better word?
Are we stereotyping the word beggar? Or are we being technical? Because you can be forgiven for thinking that both examples above can be classed as beggars, even if you are performing or such in a mall.
On a sidenote=i do donate to less fortunate souls than myself, because i know all too well what it is like to be down in the dumps.
HOWEVER, i also believe we as a society need to do more for our fellow citizens, the state governments and federal ofc take the full brunt of the responsibility in this.
The gap btw rich and poor has always, and always will be a issue, which does not help the average 'beggar' off the streets.
On addressing the thread title in general, i absolutely believe that we have always been a race where we are quick to judge, quick to ridicule and quick to condemn.
Nothing new there. The weak get weaker, the strong become stronger, most of us stronger ones couldn't give a rat's arse about they guy who just lost his job, lost his wife, lost his kids and lost his savings because some a**hole broke into his house and murdered his family while he was at work getting the sack!
Ok ok, that's a seriously extreme and disturbing example, but you get my point right?
Hell, we are too absorbed in our own crap that everything else, or rather everyone else is always on the outer.
Even worse when it's disabled people or beggars or 'so-called' low-lives of the society who shouldn't deserve the tax-payer's money because they couldn't be bothered getting off their a**es and getting a job. Pah! Well, if it was only as simple as that. Generalizing each and every street bum and beggar and druggy like that, would be too simple.
But, that's what we do isn't it.
A pathetic race we are indeed.
Too caught up in our own materialistic bull*** to help our fellow neighbour, or the person on the street who needs a guiding light.
Job of welfare agencies or social workers?
Exactly, too easy to pass the buck isn't it?

Buddahaid · 02-22-11, 02:59 AM

The problem is separating the truly needy from the professionals. I don't like feeding someones habit and some people are simply incapable of doing anything else but panhandle. Like Steve said you can help yourself with available services if you can help yourself at all. I've talked to a street person for years who gets a monthly stipend, has a place to stay (but won't use it because of the rules), and she just can't pull anything together because she doesn't want to, and therefore will remain a free, but broken spirit living off society.

Feuer Frei! · 02-22-11, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

because she doesn't want to, and therefore will remain a free, but broken spirit living off society.

And that ofc is a issue, that some people are chosing not to pull themselves out of their situations that they are in.
Although ofc we must be careful to come to quick conclusions in some or a lot of these situations. (I don't doubt that what you say is true ofc, Buddahaid) i am more talking about in general, that we as a collective seem to judge or put down immediately that which we don't relate to or sympathize with.

Sailor Steve · 02-22-11, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

On a side-note, what do we class a beggar? Someone purely who is dressed in rags and is filthy and sits on the corner of a street? Or someone who offers entertainment, like a busker or somesuch and has a hat for any donations for his 'services' for want of a better word?

I see a huge difference between begging and performing. Playing on a street corner is no different from playing in a club or in a concert hall. The person in question is actually offering something and asking for money if you like his performance. And if I like the performance I'll certainly give him something.

I also see a difference between someone who could obviously be working and someone who could obviously not be working. I mentioned the guy who would rather beg than walk a block to the soup kitchen, and cursed me when I invited him along. I've also seen a guy in a wheelchair with no legs, and a small dog for a companion. Him I give money to when I see him.

mookiemookie · 02-22-11, 11:36 AM

I'm with Platapus and GR. I don't usually give money to homeless people. A couple exceptions I can remember:

In Boston, I was outside of a bar and smoking a cigarette. Got to talking with a panhandler. I must have had a 30 minute conversation with him. I got his whole story...asked him where his family was, why he didn't go to a shelter, etc etc. He seemed genuinely down on his luck. He was very forthright and very genuine. I gave him $20.

Also in Boston, a panhandler yells at me as I walk by: "What's the best nation in the world? "Uhh...the USA?" "No! A DO-NATION!" That made me laugh and was worth a buck.

Other than those two instances, I have never given a panhandler money.

Armistead · 02-22-11, 02:23 PM

My wife is a part time social worker at a state hospital, so she tells me some heartbreaking stories. The constant theme she hears is.."I never thought this could happen to me or my family."

If you have a job, medical insurance, home, family support...most view homelessness as "enough is enough."
If you lose your job, get seriously ill forcing you into poverty and no support..."public insensitivity."

The problem will always be two fold. You have many that have no choice but to be homeless and others that prefer it and do it for a living. For those that need help, they find it hard to get it due to all the red tape.

Homelessness has tripled in the last 10 years.

There is a big city lake behind my house surrounded by several thousand acres. In the last few years homeless people have built small tent cities around the lake, use the shelters for water, etc...The police run them out, but they come back. I would say 80% are the former white middle class, homes foreclosed, no jobs. I was shocked to find a disabled man that once lived in my neighborhood living back there. He had no disability plan and was waiting for SS approval, no income, no family. He stayed in his home until the sheriff removed him and just moved into the woods behind his home. I helped get him on medicare and he was in line waiting for S8 housing.

Many of the homeless are those ill, can't get proper meds or treatment.
Many think sick can go get free treatment and help from state hospitals or clinics, that's seldom the case unless a life threatening emergency. The red tape is as long as the wait. All levels of government are cutting programs that help the homeless.

Right now they say 72% of foreclosures are due to unemployment, people that once worked can't find work, more effected are the skilled trades. Millions more to come this year. If these people still can't find jobs, they can't even pay rent....sadly a number of them will end up homeless.

Sailor Steve · 02-23-11, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Many think sick can go get free treatment and help from state hospitals or clinics, that's seldom the case unless a life threatening emergency. The red tape is as long as the wait. All levels of government are cutting programs that help the homeless.

And here in Salt Lake we have a free clinic that runs on donations. You can get practically any kind of care you can think of there, and they have connections to local hospitals. The Homeless Shelters are also run strictly by donations - no state help at all.

Here at the VA Housing I'm in we partly pay our way by helping recycle medical supplies for that very clinic and others around the world.

Castout · 02-23-11, 02:30 AM

One thing that many people tend to neglect when they pass judgment on these poor fellows is that nobody planned to be a beggar or a destitute on the street. Either by misfortune or string of them or their own fault nobody wants in that kind of position.

What many people here like to do is giving these people just a little or ridiculously little money then pass judgment on them afterward on their back. In a way they paid their cents to pass judgment on them

. What kind of judge would judge the misfortune of other people without full information of the man? And just who appoints them anyway? They do not exactly force anyone to give them alms. I find it revolting. It's like saying if you have HIV you must be sinful!

But I do know the reason why these people often pass judgment on them. These poor fellows made them to feel uneasy about themselves. If they didn't give these people anything they would be made to feel bad about themselves yet they actually do not wish to give them anything. So they take the middle road by giving them change which will not cost them anything and then pass judgment on them for making them feel uneasy. Welcome to the hypocrisy of the world of man. Probably one of the biggest reason why most never come to know God whom they claimed to worship. But the surprise is not that, the surprise is that they who are doing this do not realize why they are doing just that!!!! The mind makes it so that they won't feel guilty.

Nicolas · 02-23-11, 02:49 AM

I say let them be, others attitude is not your problem. True compassion will never feel bad i think.

Castout · 02-23-11, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

I say let them be, others attitude is not your problem.

I never said it was my problem but it's definitely their problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

True compassion will never feel bad i think.

Indeed I agree to that.

Nicolas · 02-23-11, 05:42 AM

It was a reply to the first post.

Castout · 02-23-11, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas

It was a reply to the first post.

Ah okay

Penguin · 02-23-11, 06:22 AM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...7&postcount=16

well said Feuer Frei, can't agree more!

Feuer Frei! · 02-23-11, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...7&postcount=16

well said Feuer Frei, can't agree more!

Thank you, i appreciate that

Wolfehunter · 02-23-11, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

What I meant by who is in the wrong, is compared to other beggars who sit there with a cup/sign what ever, are these people who try to play off of emotions (showing amputated limbs to bloody 4 year olds for christ sake) worse?

Everyone is in the wrong. Government for not doing what there suppose to do and protect the people there elected to do and the people who don't push there representatives to help those less fortunate.

But its also some part homeless's own fault. Choices they've made that where the wrong one. Whatever it may be.

Some people learn to late how nasty this world can be. Some still never learn. Its all about me me and not we.

02-22-11, 01:20 AM	#16
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	My thoughts on this is that on the topic of begging for instance is that unless You have been in that situation before moreoften than not you will not give that person money. Like Sailor Steve, i have, many years ago been in a pretty bad situation but, luckily i had family and friends to get me through the bad trot. Keep in mind that a lot of the beggars or street urchins or whatever you want to call them do not have the support of loved ones. Sure, you may argue that, like Sailor Steve you do have a choice. A choice of going to a refuge for food or the local welfare agencies for food vouchers or such, etc etc. Easier said than done. Not everyone has the capabilities or means to do that. Unless you can "relate" to a person being in the dumps, and possibly begging for money or food then it is always difficult to understand and easier even to ridicule and wave away. On a side-note, what do we class a beggar? Someone purely who is dressed in rags and is filthy and sits on the corner of a street? Or someone who offers entertainment, like a busker or somesuch and has a hat for any donations for his 'services' for want of a better word? Are we stereotyping the word beggar? Or are we being technical? Because you can be forgiven for thinking that both examples above can be classed as beggars, even if you are performing or such in a mall. On a sidenote=i do donate to less fortunate souls than myself, because i know all too well what it is like to be down in the dumps. HOWEVER, i also believe we as a society need to do more for our fellow citizens, the state governments and federal ofc take the full brunt of the responsibility in this. The gap btw rich and poor has always, and always will be a issue, which does not help the average 'beggar' off the streets. On addressing the thread title in general, i absolutely believe that we have always been a race where we are quick to judge, quick to ridicule and quick to condemn. Nothing new there. The weak get weaker, the strong become stronger, most of us stronger ones couldn't give a rat's arse about they guy who just lost his job, lost his wife, lost his kids and lost his savings because some ahole broke into his house and murdered his family while he was at work getting the sack! Ok ok, that's a seriously extreme and disturbing example, but you get my point right? Hell, we are too absorbed in our own crap that everything else, or rather everyone else is always on the outer. Even worse when it's disabled people or beggars or 'so-called' low-lives of the society who shouldn't deserve the tax-payer's money because they couldn't be bothered getting off their aes and getting a job. Pah! Well, if it was only as simple as that. Generalizing each and every street bum and beggar and druggy like that, would be too simple. But, that's what we do isn't it. A pathetic race we are indeed. Too caught up in our own materialistic bull*** to help our fellow neighbour, or the person on the street who needs a guiding light. Job of welfare agencies or social workers? Exactly, too easy to pass the buck isn't it? __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

02-22-11, 02:59 AM	#17
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,327 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	The problem is separating the truly needy from the professionals. I don't like feeding someones habit and some people are simply incapable of doing anything else but panhandle. Like Steve said you can help yourself with available services if you can help yourself at all. I've talked to a street person for years who gets a monthly stipend, has a place to stay (but won't use it because of the rules), and she just can't pull anything together because she doesn't want to, and therefore will remain a free, but broken spirit living off society. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

02-22-11, 11:36 AM	#20
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I'm with Platapus and GR. I don't usually give money to homeless people. A couple exceptions I can remember: In Boston, I was outside of a bar and smoking a cigarette. Got to talking with a panhandler. I must have had a 30 minute conversation with him. I got his whole story...asked him where his family was, why he didn't go to a shelter, etc etc. He seemed genuinely down on his luck. He was very forthright and very genuine. I gave him $20. Also in Boston, a panhandler yells at me as I walk by: "What's the best nation in the world? "Uhh...the USA?" "No! A DO-NATION!" That made me laugh and was worth a buck. Other than those two instances, I have never given a panhandler money. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

02-23-11, 02:30 AM	#23
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	One thing that many people tend to neglect when they pass judgment on these poor fellows is that nobody planned to be a beggar or a destitute on the street. Either by misfortune or string of them or their own fault nobody wants in that kind of position. What many people here like to do is giving these people just a little or ridiculously little money then pass judgment on them afterward on their back. In a way they paid their cents to pass judgment on them . What kind of judge would judge the misfortune of other people without full information of the man? And just who appoints them anyway? They do not exactly force anyone to give them alms. I find it revolting. It's like saying if you have HIV you must be sinful! But I do know the reason why these people often pass judgment on them. These poor fellows made them to feel uneasy about themselves. If they didn't give these people anything they would be made to feel bad about themselves yet they actually do not wish to give them anything. So they take the middle road by giving them change which will not cost them anything and then pass judgment on them for making them feel uneasy. Welcome to the hypocrisy of the world of man. Probably one of the biggest reason why most never come to know God whom they claimed to worship. But the surprise is not that, the surprise is that they who are doing this do not realize why they are doing just that!!!! The mind makes it so that they won't feel guilty. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/ Last edited by Castout; 02-23-11 at 02:44 AM.

02-22-11, 02:23 PM	#21
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	My wife is a part time social worker at a state hospital, so she tells me some heartbreaking stories. The constant theme she hears is.."I never thought this could happen to me or my family." If you have a job, medical insurance, home, family support...most view homelessness as "enough is enough." If you lose your job, get seriously ill forcing you into poverty and no support..."public insensitivity." The problem will always be two fold. You have many that have no choice but to be homeless and others that prefer it and do it for a living. For those that need help, they find it hard to get it due to all the red tape. Homelessness has tripled in the last 10 years. There is a big city lake behind my house surrounded by several thousand acres. In the last few years homeless people have built small tent cities around the lake, use the shelters for water, etc...The police run them out, but they come back. I would say 80% are the former white middle class, homes foreclosed, no jobs. I was shocked to find a disabled man that once lived in my neighborhood living back there. He had no disability plan and was waiting for SS approval, no income, no family. He stayed in his home until the sheriff removed him and just moved into the woods behind his home. I helped get him on medicare and he was in line waiting for S8 housing. Many of the homeless are those ill, can't get proper meds or treatment. Many think sick can go get free treatment and help from state hospitals or clinics, that's seldom the case unless a life threatening emergency. The red tape is as long as the wait. All levels of government are cutting programs that help the homeless. Right now they say 72% of foreclosures are due to unemployment, people that once worked can't find work, more effected are the skilled trades. Millions more to come this year. If these people still can't find jobs, they can't even pay rent....sadly a number of them will end up homeless.

02-23-11, 02:49 AM	#24
Nicolas Commander Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Uruguay Posts: 453 Downloads: 196 Uploads: 4	I say let them be, others attitude is not your problem. True compassion will never feel bad i think.

02-23-11, 05:42 AM	#26
Nicolas Commander Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Uruguay Posts: 453 Downloads: 196 Uploads: 4	It was a reply to the first post.

02-23-11, 06:22 AM	#28
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...7&postcount=16 well said Feuer Frei, can't agree more!