Periscope/Binocs omitting docks in Harbors

WH4K · 02-20-11, 08:34 AM

Good point, even taller things such as cranes become magically "cloaked" from any sort of real distance. In "docks" I was including all manner of harbor structures.

It seems as if the first thing I see in a harbor - aside from the ships - is always the lighthouse beacon(s). But I don't think they're visible far enough out. Have to do some in-game testing to be sure. It does make sense that one would see a lighthouse's light before seeing the lighthouse itself.

Setting up torpedo shots at any sort of serious range in this game is pretty hopeless with stock optics & radar, and after reading about some of the other mod efforts, I'm realizing why. It's not only the severe limitations of our displays, whose rather pathetic pixel density (~110 ppi or less) prevent seeing sufficient detail at distances where subs historically set up shots. The in-game scopes have wrong fields of view, and the radar is a huge mess.

I'm going to need more mods than just TMO to fix that. Fortunately, others have done the heavy lifting, and it's just a matter of figuring out which mods to use.

WernherVonTrapp · 02-20-11, 06:55 PM

Yes, that is a good point and something I didn't consider until you mentioned it. Especially the mountains. I had a few occasions where I thought I was close enough to known mountainous regions and couldn't see them but, I just never gave it much thought. I thought (at the time) it might be due to fog or some other weather phenomenon. The "docks" situation never really hampered or presented me with any real problems so, I just chalked it up to curvature of the earth along with fog, heat waves or any combo of weather conditions. I guess if I was trying celestial navigation, I might have been more aware of it.

Then again, knowing me, I probably would've just gotten close enough to where I could see the landmarks.

WH4K · 02-20-11, 10:34 PM

I just played a while using MaxOptics IV, as well as the Ship-Centered Accuracy Fix (SCAF) for TMO 2.

Wow, what a difference! I can actually see stuff, and get a reasonably accurate range measurement with the stadimeter. It's also much easier to see bearings within 1°.

Long-distance shots are now feasible.

Max Optics IV probably introduces higher levels of magnification, as well as image stabilization, than were historically available to sub commanders. However, it's a necessary "cheat," to compensate for the shortcomings of the computer display.

One more thing about the harbors has been bugging me: Shouldn't they have antisubmarine and antitorpedo nets? Those seem to be missing from all harbors in SH4.

razark · 02-20-11, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WH4K

One more thing about the harbors has been bugging me: Shouldn't they have antisubmarine and antitorpedo nets? Those seem to be missing from all harbors in SH4.

Thet're there, in some harbors. Not sure if one of the mods added them, but I was mad painfully aware, as I was approaching a carrier in harbor one day. Suddenly started taking damage, took a look, and I was halfway over a net. No going forward, no going back, just sitting there, taking more and more damage.

Someone also added them as reefs around some islands. Found that one out when I suddenly started taking damage...

Ive never seen any mines, though.

TorpX · 02-21-11, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WH4K

It seems as if the first thing I see in a harbor - aside from the ships - is always the lighthouse beacon(s). But I don't think they're visible far enough out. Have to do some in-game testing to be sure. It does make sense that one would see a lighthouse's light before seeing the lighthouse itself.

You're right about the lighthouses. I hadn't thought about them. They seem to be visible from a long way off (or the light anyway).

Does everyone else get the shimmer, where the masts seem to grow or shrink, from one moment to the next?

WH4K · 02-21-11, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

You're right about the lighthouses. I hadn't thought about them. They seem to be visible from a long way off (or the light anyway).

Does everyone else get the shimmer, where the masts seem to grow or shrink, from one moment to the next?

It should be possible to see the lighthouse beacon from quite a ways, long before being able to resolve the lighthouse itself.

The thing that's a little annoying is, SH4 seems to suffer from much the same "light through solid objects" problem as SH3 did. Or maybe the occlusion detection is just not very accurate. There have been a few times during night harbor raids that I have noticed the lighthouse beacon shining through a supposedly solid ship superstructure.

Mast "shimmer," yes, I think I've seen that. Probably due to the inadequacy of our displays, which are really quite crude in terms of pixel density. Some workarounds are possible, such as antialiasing, but I don't think the SH4 engine does any AA, left to its own devices. When you are far enough off that a mast is less than 1 pixel wide, might be when you will see the appearing/disappearing of skinny structures like masts/booms.

MaxOptics IV is a huge help to that problem, as well as the general "I can't see the ships well enough to identify them or get a decent range estimate" problem.

Dogfish40 · 02-21-11, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WH4K

It should be possible to see the lighthouse beacon from quite a ways, long before being able to resolve the lighthouse itself.

The thing that's a little annoying is, SH4 seems to suffer from much the same "light through solid objects" problem as SH3 did. Or maybe the occlusion detection is just not very accurate. There have been a few times during night harbor raids that I have noticed the lighthouse beacon shining through a supposedly solid ship superstructure.

Mast "shimmer," yes, I think I've seen that. Probably due to the inadequacy of our displays, which are really quite crude in terms of pixel density. Some workarounds are possible, such as antialiasing, but I don't think the SH4 engine does any AA, left to its own devices. When you are far enough off that a mast is less than 1 pixel wide, might be when you will see the appearing/disappearing of skinny structures like masts/booms.

MaxOptics IV is a huge help to that problem, as well as the general "I can't see the ships well enough to identify them or get a decent range estimate" problem.

Yes, it's the same thing as the sun coming through the conning tower masts. I see lighthouses through buildings and stuff like that. Oh Well...

I'll have to give Max Optics a whirl...
D40

02-20-11, 08:34 AM	#1
WH4K Frogman Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 291 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Good point, even taller things such as cranes become magically "cloaked" from any sort of real distance. In "docks" I was including all manner of harbor structures. It seems as if the first thing I see in a harbor - aside from the ships - is always the lighthouse beacon(s). But I don't think they're visible far enough out. Have to do some in-game testing to be sure. It does make sense that one would see a lighthouse's light before seeing the lighthouse itself. Setting up torpedo shots at any sort of serious range in this game is pretty hopeless with stock optics & radar, and after reading about some of the other mod efforts, I'm realizing why. It's not only the severe limitations of our displays, whose rather pathetic pixel density (~110 ppi or less) prevent seeing sufficient detail at distances where subs historically set up shots. The in-game scopes have wrong fields of view, and the radar is a huge mess. I'm going to need more mods than just TMO to fix that. Fortunately, others have done the heavy lifting, and it's just a matter of figuring out which mods to use. __________________ Windows 10 Pro (x64)

02-20-11, 06:55 PM	#2
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Yes, that is a good point and something I didn't consider until you mentioned it. Especially the mountains. I had a few occasions where I thought I was close enough to known mountainous regions and couldn't see them but, I just never gave it much thought. I thought (at the time) it might be due to fog or some other weather phenomenon. The "docks" situation never really hampered or presented me with any real problems so, I just chalked it up to curvature of the earth along with fog, heat waves or any combo of weather conditions. I guess if I was trying celestial navigation, I might have been more aware of it. Then again, knowing me, I probably would've just gotten close enough to where I could see the landmarks. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

02-20-11, 10:34 PM	#3
WH4K Frogman Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 291 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I just played a while using MaxOptics IV, as well as the Ship-Centered Accuracy Fix (SCAF) for TMO 2. Wow, what a difference! I can actually see stuff, and get a reasonably accurate range measurement with the stadimeter. It's also much easier to see bearings within 1°. Long-distance shots are now feasible. Max Optics IV probably introduces higher levels of magnification, as well as image stabilization, than were historically available to sub commanders. However, it's a necessary "cheat," to compensate for the shortcomings of the computer display. One more thing about the harbors has been bugging me: Shouldn't they have antisubmarine and antitorpedo nets? Those seem to be missing from all harbors in SH4. __________________ Windows 10 Pro (x64)