Obama Sends $3.7 Trillion Budget to Congress

[Gerald]

President Obama sent Congress a $3.73 trillion budget Monday, a spending plan for 2012 that projects $1.1 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade but also continues adding to the national debt for years to come.

Republicans, who are still trying to cut billions out of this year's budget, slammed the proposal after giving it a quick analysis Monday morning. The top Republicans on the House and Senate budget committees said it would push $8.7 trillion in new spending while piling another $13 trillion onto the debt over the next 10 years.

"It would be better to do nothing than to pass this budget," House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said Monday.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...dget-congress/


Note: Published February 14, 2011

[gimpy117]

But the republicans still wanted their tax cut bill.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

But the republicans still wanted their tax cut bill.

Yes, that's right...

[Ducimus]

So if understanding the tax cuts correctly, the average American foots the bill while the gilded elite get off scott free?

edit:
Yeah i know everyone supposed to get some tax break, but porportionally, if you do the percentages, the average joe saves SQUAT. The gilded elite save millions.

edit:
I'll just leave this here:

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

So if understanding the tax cuts correctly, the average American foots the bill while the gilded elite get off scott free?

edit:
Yeah i know everyone supposed to get some tax break, but porportionally, if you do the percentages, the average joe saves SQUAT. The gilded elite save millions.

edit:
I'll just leave this here:

What is the optimal solution to the problems, I'm not for any tax increases, but if you play with the idea that to decide what to do,

[gimpy117]

well under Sen. Ryan's "road map" tax plan, the Average tax for the middle class would actually go up by $900, while the top percent save hundreds of thousands to millions. The poorest only see a reduction of 174 dollars on average.


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3114

[Gerald]

And how many will be unemployed when....

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well under Sen. Ryan's "road map" tax plan, the Average tax for the middle class would actually go up by $900, while the top percent save hundreds of thousands to millions. The poorest only see a reduction of 174 dollars on average.


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3114

plutocracy
plu·toc·ra·cy
[ploo-tok-ruh-see]

–noun, plural -cies.
1. the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.
2. a government or state in which the wealthy class rules.
3. a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.

[August]

Well how DARE those evil Republicans say the Democrats are spending too much money.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Vendor

What is the optimal solution to the problems, I'm not for any tax increases, but if you play with the idea that to decide what to do,

My opinion?

First we have to recognize that it took our nation many decades to build up this deficit/debt. To expect a workable plan to get rid of it in a few years is sophistry. There is no way we can economically withstand any drastic plan to eliminate the deficit quickly. It may be a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

Any solution will have to be a multi-generational solution and honestly that ain't gonna happen in today's sound-byte political environment.. but we can dream.

First step should be to freeze government spending. All government spending. Yes that means the military too. This will drastically slow down the growth of our deficit. It will still grow due to interest/SS/Medicare but it is a first step (if you find yourself in a deficit, first stop spending more money).

Let this solution cook for a few years to see how it works and to let the economy adapt to this change. During this time limits on SS and medicare can be slowly grandfathered in so that the current old guys who were relying on it can get it, while the younger guys who still have time to set up their own programs can do so (clearly the devil will be in the details). But the objective has to be to ween the citizens away from the "old" SS and Medicare system as we simply can't afford it in its present state. I don't think the solution is to eliminate these programs, but they do need to change.... but slowly.

Then after a few years we can cut more to the extent that even counting interest our deficit ceases to grow. Let that solution cook for a few years for the economy to adapt.

Then, and only then can we start cutting programs to start reducing the deficit and as the years pass we can continue to adjust these programs under a balanced budget schema.

But we can't do it all at once. It took us decades to screw up, it will take decades to fix. But the first step needs to be to stop increasing the spending.

We also need to recognize that any corrective action will hurt. We need to spread the hurt. Yes that means that in some cases a person who did not do anything wrong will be paying for those who did. We have to suck it up for the betterment of our country.

But like I posted before, this is strictly a fantasy. We can't get politicians to give a crap about our country even within their term, no less multi-generational. Politicians simply don't care enough.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Platapus

My opinion?

First we have to recognize that it took our nation many decades to build up this deficit/debt. To expect a workable plan to get rid of it in a few years is sophistry. There is no way we can economically withstand any drastic plan to eliminate the deficit quickly. It may be a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

Any solution will have to be a multi-generational solution and honestly that ain't gonna happen in today's sound-byte political environment.. but we can dream.

First step should be to freeze government spending. All government spending. Yes that means the military too. This will drastically slow down the growth of our deficit. It will still grow due to interest/SS/Medicare but it is a first step (if you find yourself in a deficit, first stop spending more money).

Let this solution cook for a few years to see how it works and to let the economy adapt to this change. During this time limits on SS and medicare can be slowly grandfathered in so that the current old guys who were relying on it can get it, while the younger guys who still have time to set up their own programs can do so (clearly the devil will be in the details). But the objective has to be to ween the citizens away from the "old" SS and Medicare system as we simply can't afford it in its present state. I don't think the solution is to eliminate these programs, but they do need to change.... but slowly.

Then after a few years we can cut more to the extent that even counting interest our deficit ceases to grow. Let that solution cook for a few years for the economy to adapt.

Then, and only then can we start cutting programs to start reducing the deficit and as the years pass we can continue to adjust these programs under a balanced budget schema.

But we can't do it all at once. It took us decades to screw up, it will take decades to fix. But the first step needs to be to stop increasing the spending.

We also need to recognize that any corrective action will hurt. We need to spread the hurt. Yes that means that in some cases a person who did not do anything wrong will be paying for those who did. We have to suck it up for the betterment of our country.

But like I posted before, this is strictly a fantasy. We can't get politicians to give a crap about our country even within their term, no less multi-generational. Politicians simply don't care enough.

What areas do you think it should have first priority when it comes to saving money on

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Platapus

First step should be to freeze government spending. All government spending. Yes that means the military too. This will drastically slow down the growth of our deficit. It will still grow due to interest/SS/Medicare but it is a first step (if you find yourself in a deficit, first stop spending more money).

I agree. Any serious discussion about spending reduction must include the average 1/5th of the budget that is defense spending.

[CaptainHaplo]

Simply put, allowing the deficit to grow at ALL is asking for a monetary collapse. The nations of the world are already agitating for a new base currency rather than the dollar. If that happens - and it will if our debt is allowed to continue to grow, then the dollar will collapse.

Platapus is right on one thing - when you spend more than you take in, you have to stop spending. So, right now we need to make THIS budget year (2011-2012) balance - interest payments all all. Sure its gonna suck, sure there will be cuts where we don't like it. But we can't sit by and say "well we are cutting back" while the debt continues to grow. Its like a stab wound victim, you can stop the bleeding, but you only choose to "slow it down".... is that really going to save his life? This is the country's fiscal life we are talking about. Slowing the bleeding isn't going to save it.

1 year to balance the budget. Then, the next year we start paying down the debt. Even if its only 100 Billion a year to start with (meaning at that rate your looking at 150 years to pay it all off) you start paying it back.

Now - I am going to be rather cold about this. Total Revenue in 2010 was 2.16 Trillion. We need to be spending no more than what we make. That means drastic cuts to a lot of things. Yes - even Defense. Yes, changes to the SS infrastructure will be needed. Changes across the board.

What needs to happen is the entire budget process needs to be changed. Its handled backwards right now. The politicians (on both sides) figure out what they want to spend, then forget about what they make.

Wan't to solve the budget issues? Limit the government spending to its total reciepts for the previous year.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

So if understanding the tax cuts correctly, the average American foots the bill while the gilded elite get off scott free?

edit:
Yeah i know everyone supposed to get some tax break, but porportionally, if you do the percentages, the average joe saves SQUAT. The gilded elite save millions.

The "gilded elite" pay virtually ALL the bills.

The new budget is $12,000 per capita. No one deserves a cut who doesn't pony up enough to cover their family. We have 4 people, so our cut is $48,000. If we pay some multiple of that, and another family of 4 pays $4800, who deserves the cut again? The average joe pays for nothing at all. You could end income taxes on a standard deviation around the median of the middle bracket and it would barely be noticed.

Again, if there are any tax cuts, they should be, you know, to people actually paying taxes, and ideally those paying the most "shares" first.

This budget gives lie to Obama claiming any sort of fiscal responsibility. Send a balanced budget to Congress, or even one with a surplus or STFU. That goes to Republicans, too. Trimming off a few hundred billion isn't enough. Balanced, or STFU.

Instead of saving 1.1 trillion over 10 years (the obama plan, which increases spending, then also increases taxes), they need to have a budget that saves 1.1 trillion THIS YEAR. Alone. And every year forward. Take the 2007 budget and just change 2007 to 2012. Done.

[Ducimus]

One problem is the government isn't like you or me doing their personal budget. If you make X amount, you or I know that we cannot spend more then X amount. Preferbly X amount, ,minues Some money to put into savings for a rainy day.

To do this, you are I may pay just PL and PD on auto insurance, or subscribe to the lower end plan on cable (or do away with it entirely), watch electrical usage, use the AC less, etc etc.

But that's not how the government works, is it? It's all about special interest's, be it some hippy bleeding heart green group, or corporate megabucks and that upper elite i love to hate so much.

edit:

The "gilded elite" pay virtually ALL the bills.

BS. I don't see how that's possible since they've been busy offshoring their countryman's livelyhoods, automating what they can't, and using every loophole along the way to avoid taxes. Screw those "people".