State of Iraq

I'm glad you agree with Tribesman.

Are you having one of your moments of patriotic blindness again?

[Freiwillige]

This topic inspired some research on my part and I learned allot about Saddam Hussein. He was an avid admirer of Stalin's. He didn't want communism per say but he did want Stalinism. When he returned from self exile in Egypt and started planning for the Baath party he was quoted as saying "Well turn this into a Stalinist nation yet." He often read books about Stalin's childhood feeling a certain kinship as they were both extremely motivated thinkers from a peasant stock who used any means necessary to grab power.

the Guy writing all this has interviewed Saddam several times and is putting together a book. He says that Saddam was very annalytical and always looked toward the future and creating the perfect state and making Iraq the head of the Arab world even if it meant killing a large number of Iraqi's to achieve this.

Very interesting reading ill have to find that page again.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

Says the guy with a username glorifying the most bloodthirsty nation ever created.

No doubt the USSR had ties to imperialism after Lenin, however during the creation of the Soviet Union in 1917, it was on its way towards a workers state, until being invaded by 15 imperialist countries including the US, in which it advocated to a militant idealogy; war communism for defense against Imperialism and monarchic restoration. However, for the most bloodthirsty nation ever created? USA without a doubt. You all want proof so let me compile:

Here's a nice video that compiles most (It's in 2 parts)
If you don't think its true and this is "anti-american propaganda" then look up each event yourself

Part 1:
Part 2:

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

No doubt

Indeed.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

No doubt the USSR had ties to imperialism after Lenin, however during the creation of the Soviet Union in 1917...

let me finish that for you

...Lenin and Trotsky killed 5 million people trying to impose Soviet rule over various ethnic enclaves and fledgling new nations.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

let me finish that for you

...Lenin and Trotsky killed 5 million people trying to impose Soviet rule over various ethnic enclaves and fledgling new nations.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Here's a nice video that compiles most (It's in 2 parts)
If you don't think its true and this is "anti-american propaganda" then look up each event yourself

I'm already familiar with many of those events, and that video is about as warped and biased as it can get. Since you obviously know nothing I'll explain it to you.

He jumps from event to event and blames them all on "Americans", starting with the Spanish invasion of South and Cental America, which had nothing to do with British "Americans". Those "Americans" didn't even exist for another 300 years.

He then jumps all the way to 1846, and the Mexican-American war. Santa Ana couldn't get anybody to live in Texas, so he farmed it out to Steven Austin and his slave-trading followers. Bad? Yes, but nothing to do with what he describes in the video. By 1832 the population of Texas was mostly "Anglos", and they decided they wanted to become an independent state. Santa Ana, said "No", and they went to war. In 1836 they won their independence, and that was that. In 1845, with Sam Houston as president, they decided to petition the US for statehood. That was too much for Santa Ana, and he told the US that if the congress granted statehood to Texas it would mean war with Mexico.

The British and French warned us not to do it, because at that time Mexico had the finest Napoleonic army on the planet. We did it anyway, and I won't go into all the reasons why we won, but we did. We took Texas, and California to boot. The US congress wanted to take all of Mexico, and the Mexican congress actually thought that was a good idea, but President Polk said "No, not gonna happen."

Bottom line: The United States didn't start that war, Santa Ana did, and what the guys says in the video is an outright perversion of the actual events.

The Philippines: It can be argued that we started the war with Spain, but even that is debatable. Spain owned the Philipines and Cuba, and we took them both. And guess what? We granted them independence. Both were friendly to America through the majority of the 20th Century.

A lot of the things he refers to after that are true, and we have made the mistake many times of supporting a dictator because he suited somebody's agenda. We are indeed indirectly responsible for the atrocities commited by those people, and in some cases directly responsible. That said, at least we have a system that allows us to question the activities of our own government, which is more than any Soviet or Arabic state can say.

The Soviet Union under Stalin killed more people in the World War Two years than the United States has killed in our entire history. That's what August meant by "bloodthirsty".

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The Soviet Union under Stalin killed more people in the World War Two years than the United States has killed in our entire history. That's what August meant by "bloodthirsty".

Yes, as well as the millions more the reds allowed to starve to death in the famine of 1921 and the still millions more victims of Stalins various purges.

Red is an apt color for those monsters. The color of the blood of millions.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Spain owned the Philipines and Cuba, and we took them both. And guess what? We granted them independence. Both were friendly to America through the majority of the 20th Century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha yes they were friendly, the Cuban Mafia, generals, and the dictatorship of Flugene Batista was very friendly to the United States especially for "military reasons"
Thats why he killed 20,000 of his own people that disobeyed him. Fidel may not be perfect, but he sure as hell didn't murder 20,000, and he sure didn't take crap from the US imperialists. Good thing Che Guevera was there, otherwise Cuba may of fallen to US imperialism. And don't go telling me he was this racist butcher, LOL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of the things he refers to after that are true, and we have made the mistake many times of supporting a dictator because he suited somebody's agenda. We are indeed indirectly responsible for the atrocities commited by those people, and in some cases directly responsible.
------------------------------------
Yes we are, and most Americans don't even know these events though you and a few others may
----------------------------------------

That said, at least we have a system that allows us to question the activities of our own government, which is more than any Soviet or Arabic state can say.
----------------------------------
Free on the inside, buy a state of economic opression and genocide on the outside. If we're so free, then why is the government on our Skype, naked body scanners, "patriot act", all these illeagle searches/ siezures. If we're so free, then overthrow the government, and stop the imperialism which has killed over 1.6 billion people, most US is part of. Can't see ANY "communist dictator" is responsible for that many. Capitalism leads to imperialism and as Lenin said fascism is capitalism in decay. Look at the "economic system" we have now..
----------------------------------------------
The Soviet Union under Stalin killed more people in the World War Two years than the United States has killed in our entire history. That's what August meant by "bloodthirsty".
----------------------------
Well he's dead wrong there, at most "Stalin killed" 10 million the most of them were sent in camps not "directly murdered". The US on the otherhand, however... well should we start with the 300,000,000 Genocide against the Native Americans towards its founding? I know a lot, and I know what I'm talking about so don't tell me I "know nothing". We can disagree idealogically, but you can't lie about history. The "black book of communism" btw is VERY INNACURATE, and Harvard itself admits it.

Btw, we haven't even STARTED to discuss US war criminals like Henry Kissinger or Dick Cheney which are FAR worse than Stalin. I do not like or agree with Joseph Stalin's policies but the enormous propaganda said about him to be used against communism, is outrageous.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

Yes, as well as the millions more the reds allowed to starve to death in the famine of 1921 and the still millions more victims of Stalins various purges.

Red is an apt color for those monsters. The color of the blood of millions.

And let's not forget the time before there was a Soviet Union. The anti-Jewish pogroms of the 19th century. The millions upons millions of serfs that toiled at the whim of the tsars and the countless numbers that perished in Peter I's pursuit of vanity. The list is near endless.

And of course, there's Cechnya.

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Btw, we haven't even STARTED to discuss US war criminals like Henry Kissinger or Dick Cheney which are FAR worse than Stalin. I do not like or agree with Joseph Stalin's policies but the enormous propaganda said about him to be used against communism, is outrageous.

So the question becomes do you actually believe this clap trap or are you just another forum troll?

Your next 5 posts will tell.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

So the question becomes do you actually believe this clap trap or are you just another forum troll?

Your next 5 posts will tell.

No I'm not a troll I'm engaging in this discussion. Unfortunetly, we went off track, and thats probably my fault for discussing overall US foreign policy instead of only Iraq. Also August for brining up my name

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Btw, we haven't even STARTED to discuss US war criminals like Henry Kissinger or Dick Cheney which are FAR worse than Stalin. I do not like or agree with Joseph Stalin's policies but the enormous propaganda said about him to be used against communism, is outrageous.

Stalin himself admitted to killing 10 million of his own people with his polices!

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And let's not forget the time before there was a Soviet Union. The anti-Jewish pogroms of the 19th century. The millions upons millions of serfs that toiled at the whim of the tsars and the countless numbers that perished in Peter I's pursuit of vanity. The list is near endless.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

And did that make any of it not happen? Did that excuse the Socialist purges? Lenin's Red Terror? Lenin's supression and advocacy of mass execution of the striking workers in 1919? The very people that the Socialists claimed to be helping?

Lenin said a whole lot of stuff, but a despot is still a despot, even in a nice suit.