State of Iraq

Takeda Shingen · 02-10-11, 04:42 PM

We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Skybird · 02-10-11, 04:51 PM

I did not had to change my position on Iraq by one inch since 2003, so when I was saying in 2003 and 2004 that it was a big mistake, was caused not by need but by opportunistic desire, that it was about lies and intentional deception of the public, and was both badly prepared and badly carried out, then I still say so today. In fact I feel confirmed in my warnings by everything that has happened since the invasion started.

A very stupid adventure, from A to Z. The blood costs are payed by the Iraqi civilians.

Dowly · 02-10-11, 05:02 PM

Never should've gone there.

Saddam was a bad guy, but he kept things pretty much under control. The war and death of Saddam opened the door for terrorists and chaos. Gonna take a looong time for Iraq to get over this (if it ever will).

02-10-11, 05:06 PM

All the coilition did was exactly what the Iranians wanted, and probably more than they could have dreamed of.

Armistead · 02-10-11, 05:16 PM

Seems the US can't learn that you can't replace cultures with war. It's impossible to change a mindset that's been around 1000 years with war, it can't be done.

Bush Sr knew better, his son didn't. He lied, he is a criminal and should be charged as one, but we can't do that, somehow it would dishonor the servicemen, so it's just a lie we all live with.

Bubblehead1980 · 02-10-11, 05:30 PM

I am glad we went.I think the cause was just even though we did not find WMD's and tired of this crap about Bush lied etc.Believe they followed their intel and used the faulty intel.We do know Sadam had the WMD's at one time, perhaps while we were beating the war drum for months ahead and he had a deadline, he got rid of them or sent them elsewhere, very plausible scenario.

The war was mismanaged, going in fairly light with not enough troops for the shock and awe instead of a full scale war with the numbers they really needed.They tried to do it the easy way going on the assumption once Iraqi Army was gone there would be no real resistance.They failed to plan for an insurgency and it cost many more lives than it should have.

I believe one day Iraq will be the "shining city on the hill" in the middle east.The war was worth it, mismanaged most of the time, absolutely but the surge worked and things are better.Worth it? Absolutely.

02-10-11, 05:43 PM

Quote:

very plausible scenario

Ducimus, that politician you mentioned.
When he was selling that obvious bull that practicly got him laughed out the chamber didn't he describe it as the worst point of his career and the biggest stain on his reputation.
Do you think he would describe it as a "very plausible scenario"?

Quote:

The war was worth it, mismanaged most of the time, absolutely but the surge worked and things are better.Worth it? Absolutely.

Worth it? The recently installed government was finally put together after some of the most virulently anti-american terrorists in the region sat down together and agreed which Iranian backed group would take the key positions in government?
Absolutely???????
Worth it? yeah for Iran.

Ducimus · 02-10-11, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am glad we went.

Man, do you have any idea how hallow those words are?
I have to ask, Did you go Iraq? Did you serve in the military? Where you there when the **** was hitting the fan? Where where you stationed at?

Don't ever use the word, "We" in that context if you didn't participate in something like that. When it comes to Iraq or Afghanistan, *I* sure as hell won't be saying, "im glad we went". I have no right to.

There's ONE Thing that has really peeved me off with the general public every since i got out of the military. The whole, "We're gonna kick their ass!" or, "I'm glad we went!" mentality. REALLY?!!?? What do you mean, WE? Where where you again? Like the whole thing is a god damn football game, as they sit on their asses, watching CNN, and waving the American flag around like its a set of cheer leaders pom poms.

Another big FAD i always get a kick out of, is the "I support our troops" yellow ribbons some jerkoffs place next to their gas caps on their vehicles. You support our troops eh? REALLY? HOW? By buying a bumper sticker on amazon? Displaying your do nothing flag waving patrotism to assuage some guilt? Way to support the troops there......

You'll have to excuse me, I've had that sentiment bottled up in me for about 14 years now. As an aside, its my opinion that anyone who supports a war (any war) should be made to serve in it.

Platapus · 02-10-11, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Seems the US can't learn that you can't replace cultures with war. It's impossible to change a mindset that's been around 1000 years with war, it can't be done.

There is wisdom in these words.

August · 02-10-11, 11:52 PM

Well I for one am glad that we took out Saddam and his regime. The man was just waiting for a chance to stick it to us just as soon as we took our boot off his neck.

baggygreen · 02-11-11, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

There is wisdom in these words.

Well, you can, but fortunately we've largely moved on from that form of warfare. Wiping out every man, woman and child of an entire town or city as used to happen, would have been nasty enough. Imaging someone trying to do that on a national scale.

AVGWarhawk · 02-10-11, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yep, should have pulled out years ago. Unfortunate we started the ball rolling. We need to clean up the mess. I have a friend who just came back for Iraq. He said it is a mess and will not survive for very long once the US troops are pulled.

Takeda Shingen · 02-10-11, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yep, should have pulled out years ago. Unfortunate we started the ball rolling. We need to clean up the mess. I have a friend who just came back for Iraq. He said it is a mess and will not survive for very long once the US troops are pulled.

Not only that, but it becomes an exercise in futility. Each time we enable one of these nations to democratically liberalize in our western sense, the people of that nation end up voting in the very people we were trying to exclude from power. We're seeing it in motion in Egypt right now. Promoting democracy in the Middle East has really become a lost cause.

Ducimus · 02-10-11, 05:11 PM

Back when this all started, I supported it. I was just a year or two out of the military, NBC training was still fresh on my mind, and i almost re enlisted after sept 11. My grandfather begged me not to. Here was a WW 2 veteran who told me, "Don't re up. you've already done your fair share". Considering i was afraid, (because I knew the hardships I would face - again), i took his advice. Besides that, my desire to reenlist was more out of a sense of guilt for not being with my comrades who were still in, as the excrement was hitting the fan. Every bone in my body was ashamed for not being with them, but i knew the odds of re upping, and getting back to the same unit with those people were next to nill.

But there it was, Saddam was supposed to have NBC, and General Powell (the only politician i ever respected in recent time) , gave his anthrax speech to congress. I was sold on it.

When the dust has settled, and all the reasons to go were simply not there, i felt lied to, and betrayed (again). Now its my thought and fear that Iraq coupled with Afganistan, will eventually prove to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Much as Afganistan overtaxed the soviet union and lead to it's collapse. It won't happen right away, this is a long term reprocussion.

02-10-11, 04:51 PM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,702 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I did not had to change my position on Iraq by one inch since 2003, so when I was saying in 2003 and 2004 that it was a big mistake, was caused not by need but by opportunistic desire, that it was about lies and intentional deception of the public, and was both badly prepared and badly carried out, then I still say so today. In fact I feel confirmed in my warnings by everything that has happened since the invasion started. A very stupid adventure, from A to Z. The blood costs are payed by the Iraqi civilians. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-10-11, 11:52 PM	#10
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,222 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well I for one am glad that we took out Saddam and his regime. The man was just waiting for a chance to stick it to us just as soon as we took our boot off his neck. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

02-10-11, 04:42 PM	#1
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

02-10-11, 05:02 PM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,055 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Never should've gone there. Saddam was a bad guy, but he kept things pretty much under control. The war and death of Saddam opened the door for terrorists and chaos. Gonna take a looong time for Iraq to get over this (if it ever will).

02-10-11, 05:06 PM	#4
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	All the coilition did was exactly what the Iranians wanted, and probably more than they could have dreamed of.

02-10-11, 05:16 PM	#5
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Seems the US can't learn that you can't replace cultures with war. It's impossible to change a mindset that's been around 1000 years with war, it can't be done. Bush Sr knew better, his son didn't. He lied, he is a criminal and should be charged as one, but we can't do that, somehow it would dishonor the servicemen, so it's just a lie we all live with.

02-10-11, 05:30 PM	#6
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,133 Downloads: 606 Uploads: 44	I am glad we went.I think the cause was just even though we did not find WMD's and tired of this crap about Bush lied etc.Believe they followed their intel and used the faulty intel.We do know Sadam had the WMD's at one time, perhaps while we were beating the war drum for months ahead and he had a deadline, he got rid of them or sent them elsewhere, very plausible scenario. The war was mismanaged, going in fairly light with not enough troops for the shock and awe instead of a full scale war with the numbers they really needed.They tried to do it the easy way going on the assumption once Iraqi Army was gone there would be no real resistance.They failed to plan for an insurgency and it cost many more lives than it should have. I believe one day Iraq will be the "shining city on the hill" in the middle east.The war was worth it, mismanaged most of the time, absolutely but the surge worked and things are better.Worth it? Absolutely.

02-10-11, 05:11 PM	#14
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Back when this all started, I supported it. I was just a year or two out of the military, NBC training was still fresh on my mind, and i almost re enlisted after sept 11. My grandfather begged me not to. Here was a WW 2 veteran who told me, "Don't re up. you've already done your fair share". Considering i was afraid, (because I knew the hardships I would face - again), i took his advice. Besides that, my desire to reenlist was more out of a sense of guilt for not being with my comrades who were still in, as the excrement was hitting the fan. Every bone in my body was ashamed for not being with them, but i knew the odds of re upping, and getting back to the same unit with those people were next to nill. But there it was, Saddam was supposed to have NBC, and General Powell (the only politician i ever respected in recent time) , gave his anthrax speech to congress. I was sold on it. When the dust has settled, and all the reasons to go were simply not there, i felt lied to, and betrayed (again). Now its my thought and fear that Iraq coupled with Afganistan, will eventually prove to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Much as Afganistan overtaxed the soviet union and lead to it's collapse. It won't happen right away, this is a long term reprocussion.