US diplomat kills two Pakistanis in Lahore

Gerald · 01-27-11, 10:30 AM

An American diplomat in the Pakistani city of Lahore has shot and killed a Pakistani motorcycle rider and his pillion passenger, police say.

Police told the AFP news agency that the American fired his pistol in self-defence. US embassy officials confirmed that an American was involved.Police say that the men were pursuing the American in his car.A pedestrian was also killed by a speeding car from the US consulate which came to help, police say.

Police told the Reuters news agency that they were investigating whether the two men on the motorcycle were robbers.

Weapons had been recovered from the bodies of the dead men, police said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12298546

Note: 27 January 2011 Last updated at 14:08 GMT

CCIP · 01-27-11, 01:29 PM

Sounds like something out of the Wild West to me. Perhaps an apt comparison to the current state of things in Pakistan

Matador.es · 01-27-11, 02:46 PM

Interesting!

Torvald Von Mansee · 01-31-11, 08:52 AM

"Diplomatic staff usually enjoy a certain type of immunity, but I am not sure about murder," he said. "We will consult the Foreign Office and legal advisers in this regard."

I do believe diplomatic immunity is absolute, and this guy NEVER should have even been taken into custody, let alone held. The U.S. government could waive that immunity, but I suspect not.

This would certainly not be the first time an Islamic country didn't respect a country's diplomatic status.

FIREWALL · 01-31-11, 09:11 AM

HAPPY ENDING.

Platapus · 01-31-11, 07:20 PM

Was this guy a diplomat or a consular? The rules are a little different between the two.

Chances are he will just be PNGed, but that can affect his continuing career.

01-31-11, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Was this guy a diplomat or a consular? The rules are a little different between the two.

The claim is that he wasn't diplomatic and didn't have local firearms permits.
If that claim is true (which seems likely given that they got away with holding him) then he is buggered until uncle sam makes a generous offer

Platapus · 01-31-11, 09:37 PM

There you go. Not every one who works at an embassy or consulate has Diplomatic immunity.

If this guy is a low level employee and not Intel, the US will send a few strongly worded letters and then let him rot, I am afraid.

01-31-11, 09:48 PM

Quote:

If this guy is a low level employee and not Intel, the US will send a few strongly worded letters and then let him rot, I am afraid.

There is a lot of speculation that he is Intel.
The US govt. seem to be making some big noise while the consulate itself and the embassy are playing it very different.
The driver of the second vehicle is likely to be facing charges relating to the 3rd fatality but should get limited immunity as it was work related.

Gerald · 02-01-11, 04:06 AM

LAHORE, Pakistan – A Pakistani court ordered the government Tuesday not to release an American official arrested in the shooting deaths of two Pakistanis despite U.S. insistence that he has diplomatic immunity and has been detained illegally.

Lahore High Court Chief Justice Ijaz Chaudhry also told the government to place the American on the "exit control list" so that he cannot leave the country. Some legal experts questioned whether the court had the authority to issue such orders, but the rulings could further complicate what has become a serious diplomatic spat between the two countries.

The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad has argued that the American, who it has not named, acted in self-defense when he shot the two men in Lahore last Thursday because they were trying to rob him at gunpoint. It has issued several statements insisting he has diplomatic immunity and demanding he be released.

A copy of the American's passport obtained by The Associated Press identifies him as 36-year-old Raymond Allen Davis.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02...rican-suspect/

Note Update record, Published February 01, 2011

02-01-11, 05:08 AM

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

Platapus · 02-01-11, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

A private security contractor would have no such status. And yes, depending on the interpretation of mercenary he could be charged as such.

Torvald Von Mansee · 02-01-11, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

You're only gleeful because the guy is American.

Pathetic, really.

02-01-11, 01:00 PM

Quote:

You're only gleeful because the guy is American.

What planet are you on?

Oh I get it.....

Quote:

I do believe diplomatic immunity is absolute, and this guy NEVER should have even been taken into custody, let alone held.

....planet clueless in the CAPS LOCK system.

Jimbuna · 02-01-11, 01:02 PM

If it turns out he has no immunity then his only mitigation can be self defence.

The moral being....don't try to rob somebody whilst carrying firearms if they are also armed.

01-27-11, 10:30 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	US diplomat kills two Pakistanis in Lahore An American diplomat in the Pakistani city of Lahore has shot and killed a Pakistani motorcycle rider and his pillion passenger, police say. Police told the AFP news agency that the American fired his pistol in self-defence. US embassy officials confirmed that an American was involved.Police say that the men were pursuing the American in his car.A pedestrian was also killed by a speeding car from the US consulate which came to help, police say. Police told the Reuters news agency that they were investigating whether the two men on the motorcycle were robbers. Weapons had been recovered from the bodies of the dead men, police said. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12298546 Note: 27 January 2011 Last updated at 14:08 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

01-27-11, 01:29 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Sounds like something out of the Wild West to me. Perhaps an apt comparison to the current state of things in Pakistan __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-31-11, 08:52 AM	#4
Torvald Von Mansee Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: CA4528 Posts: 1,693 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	"Diplomatic staff usually enjoy a certain type of immunity, but I am not sure about murder," he said. "We will consult the Foreign Office and legal advisers in this regard." I do believe diplomatic immunity is absolute, and this guy NEVER should have even been taken into custody, let alone held. The U.S. government could waive that immunity, but I suspect not. This would certainly not be the first time an Islamic country didn't respect a country's diplomatic status. __________________ "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" - Leon Trotsky

01-31-11, 09:11 AM	#5
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	HAPPY ENDING. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

01-31-11, 07:20 PM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,365 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Was this guy a diplomat or a consular? The rules are a little different between the two. Chances are he will just be PNGed, but that can affect his continuing career. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-27-11, 02:46 PM	#3
Matador.es Chief Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 327 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Interesting!

01-31-11, 09:37 PM	#8
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,365 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	There you go. Not every one who works at an embassy or consulate has Diplomatic immunity. If this guy is a low level employee and not Intel, the US will send a few strongly worded letters and then let him rot, I am afraid. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-01-11, 04:06 AM	#10
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Pakistani court blocks release of American suspect LAHORE, Pakistan – A Pakistani court ordered the government Tuesday not to release an American official arrested in the shooting deaths of two Pakistanis despite U.S. insistence that he has diplomatic immunity and has been detained illegally. Lahore High Court Chief Justice Ijaz Chaudhry also told the government to place the American on the "exit control list" so that he cannot leave the country. Some legal experts questioned whether the court had the authority to issue such orders, but the rulings could further complicate what has become a serious diplomatic spat between the two countries. The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad has argued that the American, who it has not named, acted in self-defense when he shot the two men in Lahore last Thursday because they were trying to rob him at gunpoint. It has issued several statements insisting he has diplomatic immunity and demanding he be released. A copy of the American's passport obtained by The Associated Press identifies him as 36-year-old Raymond Allen Davis. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02...rican-suspect/ Note Update record, Published February 01, 2011 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

02-01-11, 05:08 AM	#11
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy? Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

02-01-11, 01:02 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,539 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	If it turns out he has no immunity then his only mitigation can be self defence. The moral being....don't try to rob somebody whilst carrying firearms if they are also armed. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!