An example of why a public option would be nice in the United States

[Torvald Von Mansee]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...98/detail.html

I predict the Usual Suspects will harp on this:

'In a statement to 7NEWS the insurance company said, "We did not receive a full and timely payment and (Mrs. Flanagan) was provided several notices of the shortage and a grace period reminder notice on the last invoice, along with extended grace dates as provided for under COBRA regulations."'

Because, you know, a corporation like this is scrupulously honest and would never lie/deceive. I'm sure the notices WEREN'T buried in the teensy, tiny print of a bill w/the deliberate intent that they be missed!!! Also, you want to be on THEIR side over that of the little guy, anyway.

[August]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I predict the Usual Suspects will harp on this:

What's with this repeated mention of "Usual Suspects"? If you don't want people to comment then why do you bother to post?

Oh your link times out.

[Growler]

On the other hand, when my mom's cancer coverage through AFLAC lapsed while she was in the hospital, the hospital called them, explained the situation, and AFLAC reinstated her coverage retroactively to the date it lapsed. So yeah, insurance COMPANIES may be a pain, but PEOPLE still work there.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

What's with this repeated mention of "Usual Suspects"? If you don't want people to comment then why do you bother to post?

Because he thinks he's a centrist and anyone who disagrees is falling off the right side. Of course he doesn't realize that he is "the usual suspects" for the far left.

Have you ever noticed how he never says anything, just posts a moderate insult and runs away? Tribesman gets grief for going over the edge, and he sometimes does, but at least he contributes to the debate, and often well.

Torvald, on the other hand, contributes nothing but the ocassional insult. This is the classic example of trolling at its worst.

[Bubblehead1980]

A "public option" would work no better and just further add to our nation's problems.

[Platapus]

This is not a public option or no public option issue.

This is an issue where a policy is being enforced to a strictness that, in this case, raises an emotional response.

Sure we all feel a bit angry when a person is denied medical coverage for a "mere" $0.02. That's the whole purpose of the story.

What I don't understand is why they did not pay the extra 2 cents when they paid their following month's bill?

If I get a bill, for something as important as medical insurance and it has listed

Forwarded balance $0.02
Current Balance $328.69
Total Due $328.71

Why didn't they either pay the extra $0.02 (no brainer) or immediately call the insurance company to ask about the two cents?

Ultimately it is the responsibility of the customer to pay the premium.

Did the insurance company act like jerks? Of course they did. Honestly does anyone expect caring and consideration from COBRA?

But, did this family take any reasonable actions to mitigate this issue such as paying the two cents or calling the company to inquire? Evidently not. Their solution was to ignore the problem.

Yes on an emotional level, this issue is terrible. I am angry at this. But logically I can't ignore that this family did contribute to this issue by not paying the full amount or calling/writing the insurance company to inquire about the "extra" $0.02

[gimpy117]

as i said before, people's health is a right. and why should we make health a profit based system?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

as i said before, people's health is a right. and why should we make health a profit based system?

When ever someone opines a "right", I like to ask what is the source of this "right"?

I am not saying that it is or is not a right, but I would be interested in knowing what you consider the source of this right?

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Platapus

When ever someone opines a "right", I like to ask what is the source of this "right"?

I am not saying that it is or is not a right, but I would be interested in knowing what you consider the source of this right?

Curious. I'd like to know as well; the concept is intriguing.

It is the responsibility of a company to provide the service paid for. It is the responsibility of the consumer to pay the company for services rendered. Simple economics.

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

people's health is a right.

Fine by me, but declaring it to be a right doesn't mean that the government has to, or even should, get involved in providing it. You also have a right to privacy. Does that mean the government has to guard your front door in order to make sure you get it?

...and why should we make health a profit based system?

Because it is a profit based system.

Now I'm not unsympathetic to a Nationalized Health Care system but that presently does not exist and you can't just switch from one to the other like you turn on a light, even if the idea had complete backing from the medical community, which it doesn't.

First we'd have to train a complete new crop of surgeons, doctors, nurses, technicians orderlies and administrators because few of the existing ones are going to want to leave the much higher paying private practice for government service.

That alone will take quite some time and it won't be cheap.

Meanwhile though we'd also have to spend even more money to rent, buy or build hospitals and clinics all across our huge country in order to give that new crop of medics a place to work once they are ready. And then lets not forget that we'd have to start, collect, file, standardize and store 300 million sets of medical records. A huge undertaking just in itself.

So yeah, we have a right to health care, nobody is stopping you from buying as much as you require, but you can't expect to get it for free.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

When ever someone opines a "right", I like to ask what is the source of this "right"?

I am not saying that it is or is not a right, but I would be interested in knowing what you consider the source of this right?

He's right. The Tenth Amendment says so.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[CaptainHaplo]

A person's health IS a right.

What is not is a right is public payment to care for and uphold that right for everyone else.

You want to be healthy? That's your right. You can exercise, eat healthy, not smoke or drink, etc. Those are your choices.

You want to be unhealthy? Thats your right too. You can eat bon-bons, lay around and get fat, diabetic , smoke up your lungs till you get cancer, drink till your liver dessicates and eat bacon till you clog your arteries. Those are also your choices.

To say that health care is a right, and that health care should NOT be a profit source for business, your saying that the doctors and nurses who take care of you should not be recompensed beyond a certain minimal level. Your saying that you have the RIGHT to make them use their knowledge on you for your benefit without them having benefit as well.

Personal health is a right. Publicly funded health care is trampling the rights of others who have to pay for your bad decisions.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Your saying that you have the RIGHT to make them use their knowledge on you for your benefit without them having benefit as well.

And you're mis-characterizing the argument so as to create a strawman. No one said that health care professionals should work for free or even a pittance. What is being argued is that health insurance should be nationalized and taken away as a profit-making enterprise. The interests of health insurance company shareholders and the insureds are irreparably at odds. Scrap the for-profit model.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Personal health is a right. Publicly funded health care is trampling the rights of others who have to pay for your bad decisions.

If you believe that, you must have a serious moral quandary when you pay your insurance premiums each month. You're paying for the bad decisions of your fellow policyholders.

[Freiwillige]

Devil's advocate. Health care is not a right, Its a privilege. Its not set up in our constitution or the bill of rights. Our rights are guaranteed by the government but I don't see health care in any document of rights.

Health care is a privilege. You can earn it just like you could earn a Porsche but a right? How so??? People spout about rights and if it feel's good it must be a right, that is unless its completely wrong.

Not bashing just curious where the concept of Rights that aren't federally listed come from.

[August]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Not bashing just curious where the concept of Rights that aren't federally listed come from.

See my post #11 in this thread.