BBQ, Help

[Krauter]

Makes a ton of sense

Thanks a lot tater, steaks tomorrow, take #2 If I ever go to a subsim meet I'll have to thank you personally

[tater]

Probe thermo (same I have):


This will save your butt, and take the guesswork out. On steaks, since they are sorta thin, I stick in in from the side dead center.

Do this and you can't go wrong in terms of target doneness (115—R, 121—MR, 131—M, >131—ruined ). Take 'em off when they hit target, rest for 5-10 minutes.

My fave cut is rib-eye, and thick. When you have think steaks, you need to finish them slow if you sear first ("searing in juices" is BS, you can sear last, too—which is another way to cook, slowly raise center to target, then a quick, hot sear). I have seared on blazing hot cast iron for ~2 minutes on the first side, then flip, 1 minute on heat, then chuck in oven til probe goes off.

The slow method is to set the burner (or grill) to ~340° (I have an infrared thermo (laser) I got at Lowes), then cook all sides (thick steak so you cook the SIDES, too) at lower temp. Same deal, visually cook outside for "sear" and use the probe to decide when it is done.

People who can cook steaks without "aids" and can hit proper doneness I give props too. I have to cheat and use the probe most of the time (we're all geeks here, being a techno geek is a perfect excuse )

[gimpy117]

cook it hot and fast my man.

slow and cold makes bad steaks. you wanna sear it fast to keep the juices in

[Rockstar]

Don't salt raw steak meat on the grill but wait to do it on a cooked side otherwise you get that nasty coagulated blood festering to the top.

So what your saying is I should spice the steaks while they're on the grill already? How does this stop the blood from coagulating on top?



I usually don't do anything to a steak until it's been cooked. IMHO a good cut doesn't need spices.. I think what makes a good steak a tasty steak is how it's fired on the grill.

I will sometimes make a rub for a steak before I throw one on. But it doesn't seem to make the icky stuff come to the top like salt does. Wish I had an answer why. Just MHO.

Still though I highly recommend Steve Rachlein. I've learned how to grill corn on the cob up right, fish, poultry, veggies, bananas, tofu and ice cream. This guy is the mac daddy of all grill masters

Oh also if you hold your hand 3 inches above the grill and you can get to 3 mississippi before you let out a yelp the grill is at the right temp.

[tater]

There are 2 camps on seasoning. One says salt early, one late. I salt early.

As for "searing the juices in" it's easy to demonstrate this is wrong. You can sear a steak, and cook one at lower heat for longer. Weigh both steaks before you cook them, and cook to identical target temperatures. Weigh both after. See if there is a difference in wight with each method.

"Slow" for a steak doesn't mean hours, it means not blazing hot, and for a little longer time. Slow cook steaks are usually thick. I never buy steaks under 1.5 inches thick, and ideally 2". Lower temp and slower works just fine. I have done this and get cut with a fork steaks with a nice crust, though I usually sear, then move to over to finish since that's how I started doing it, and it feels more normal. For thick "slow" is worth a try for sure.

Remember that on the outside of the steak you want it caramelized, not "charred." Brown (even very dark brown) is good, black means you're doing it wrong ("cept for the "grill" marks if grilling, those get pretty dark, I'm talking the overall non-striped part).

My pan-cooked steaks are uniformly dark, golden brown on the outside.

I never get anything "icky" with salting before hand, and I salt pretty liberally. I salt the steaks when I take em out of the fridge, too. They have salt for ~1 hour before cooking. It pulls water out of the surface—which is what "aging" does (concentrating flavor by reducing some of the water). I sometimes put a little cumin on them before cooking, too (a dry rub). But I really like cumin . Depends on what else is going with the meat (makes it slightly "exotic" tasting, so it depends on the sides). I like a dinner with mushroom soup (easy, and really good), roasted veggies (broccoli, Brussels sprouts) or maybe chard or kale, and a big, "in your face" bottle of red wine. Simple food, with the best bottle of wine I can find (with company, 2, maybe 3 bottles of same ).

[THE_MASK]

My rule no 1 , no spray or anything on the bbq plate .
My rule no 2 , get the plate nice and hot .
My rule no 3 , drop the steak on the very hot plate and let it cook and just starting to smoke , turn it over once and do the other side . take it off ( no more than once each side) .
My rule no 4 , i like to wear thongs while i am barbequeing .
I nearly forgot , if you want it tender cover it with alfoil and let it rest for a few minutes first .

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by sober

My rule no 1 , no spray or anything on the bbq plate .
My rule no 2 , get the plate nice and hot .
My rule no 3 , drop the steak on the very hot plate and let it cook and just starting to smoke , turn it over once and do the other side . take it off ( no more than once each side) .
My rule no 4 , i like to wear thongs while i am barbequeing .
I nearly forgot , if you want it tender cover it with alfoil and let it rest for a few minutes first .

Rule 5 the only tools you need are a pair of tongs and an ice cold beer.

Steak should be only turned once. A good way to see if it is cooked the way you want it is this:
http://www.esquire.com/features/cooking-perfect-steak

The finger feel method on page 3 is absolutely the way to go.

[krashkart]

My advice:

Take all the advice you can get here and practice, practice, practice. And never stop asking for advice. You will find your recipe, and when that happens the rest of the art falls into place.

[NeonSamurai]

I can tell you guys the 'professional' way it is done as I was trained when I studied at Le Cordon Bleu.

Ok first off, never salt any meat going onto a grill, griddle, or fry-pan; Salt extracts juices from the meat and makes it tougher. Ditto for herbs unless you really like the taste of burnt herbs. Spices can also be a problem too as they can burn and the results may not be desirable (this all depends on type, cut, and thickness). Also it helps if the meat isn't cold to start with.

For grilling (and frying) the procedure is to get the grill to maximum heat (don't forget that it takes time for outdoor bbq's to come up to temperature, like 10 - 15 minutes or more), then sear both sides to seal the meat (meat should color a bit). If you are serving it blue, its done, otherwise you will now flip it back over to the starting side and turn the heat down to medium/medium low and start the cooking process. If you want to make it look good, make sure you flip it so you get that crosshatching or diamond pattern. You will also want to cook it on each side for the same time length (this takes practice), turning it no more than 4 times in total (once on each side to sear, and again once on each side to cook). If I am seasoning the meat with spices I would add them some time around this point on each side. Herbs I would add using a herb butter when serving, salt only gets put on when serving. Also letting it rest is also important so that the juices migrate back into the cooked area, ~5 minutes in a warm oven works well. Also put the meat on warmed plates (oven at lowest setting, or back side of the plate under the hot water tap) so it does not cool down fast.

There are 3 ways of telling doneness for steaks, cut it and look, use a thermometer, or touch it. Pros use the touch method as it is by far the most accurate, and it does not leave any cuts or holes. This is done by pressing down in the center of the meat from the top while it is on the grill. With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

We also did not use thermometers for roasting meat, or birds for that matter. Birds we would check by using a skewer, poking into the thickest part of the bird to the bone (leg or thigh), and pressing against the hole to see what color juice came out (clear is what we wanted). For roast meat we would use a skewer to the center of the meat, then touch the tip to the underside of the lip to feel how hot it was.


Btw flipping it once per side is not considered a good idea (blue or very thin steaks are the exception), and will toughen and curl the meat. The reason is that the juice in the meat flows away from the heat, and you want that juice to stay in the center so that it does not escape (and make the meat tough). Do it too long on one side and you will see juice start to seep out on the top of the meat, eventually forming a pool. Searing will help keep it in a bit too.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I can tell you guys the 'professional' way it is done as I was trained when I studied at Le Cordon Bleu.

Ok first off, never salt any meat going onto a grill, griddle, or fry-pan; Salt extracts juices from the meat and makes it tougher. Ditto for herbs unless you really like the taste of burnt herbs. Spices can also be a problem too as they can burn and the results may not be desirable (this all depends on type, cut, and thickness). Also it helps if the meat isn't cold to start with.

For grilling (and frying) the procedure is to get the grill to maximum heat (don't forget that it takes time for outdoor bbq's to come up to temperature, like 10 - 15 minutes or more), then sear both sides to seal the meat (meat should color a bit). If you are serving it blue, its done, otherwise you will now flip it back over to the starting side and turn the heat down to medium/medium low and start the cooking process. If you want to make it look good, make sure you flip it so you get that crosshatching or diamond pattern. You will also want to cook it on each side for the same time length (this takes practice), turning it no more than 4 times in total (once on each side to sear, and again once on each side to cook). If I am seasoning the meat with spices I would add them some time around this point on each side. Herbs I would add using a herb butter when serving, salt only gets put on when serving. Also letting it rest is also important so that the juices migrate back into the cooked area, ~5 minutes in a warm oven works well. Also put the meat on warmed plates (oven at lowest setting, or back side of the plate under the hot water tap) so it does not cool down fast.

There are 3 ways of telling doneness for steaks, cut it and look, use a thermometer, or touch it. Pros use the touch method as it is by far the most accurate, and it does not leave any cuts or holes. This is done by pressing down in the center of the meat from the top while it is on the grill. With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

We also did not use thermometers for roasting meat, or birds for that matter. Birds we would check by using a skewer, poking into the thickest part of the bird to the bone (leg or thigh), and pressing against the hole to see what color juice came out (clear is what we wanted). For roast meat we would use a skewer to the center of the meat, then touch the tip to the underside of the lip to feel how hot it was.

I had no idea that you studied at Le Courdon Bleu. Awesome!

I had always assumed about not salting (salt dries things out) and searing to seal, but your post confirms that for me. I never season or marinate any meat that I am grilling.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I had no idea that you studied at Le Courdon Bleu. Awesome!

I had always assumed about not salting (salt dries things out) and searing to seal, but your post confirms that for me. I never season or marinate any meat that I am grilling.

Ya I did high french cuisine and pastry (includes candies, chocolates, and anything else of a desert nature). It was career 1 until I found that I got payed the same working in a good restaurant, as working as a pizza cook in a bar. Neither payed much, so I went on to career 2 (computers), and then 3 (clinical psych/social work).

There are times when you would marinade, or do seasoning rubs (like ribs), but this is often done with fast cooking (fish or thin cuts), or pre-cooked items. Marinades with salt can also be done, as the marinade will not draw the juice out (assuming there is water content in the marinade) so readily, but marinades with acids will start the cooking process (in fact you can actually fully cook thin cuts of fish, only using acid like lemon or vinegar). Otherwise with anything else salt goes in the beginning (professionally I was trained to salt to 'perfection' where the salt brings out the maximum flavor) after any saute-ing is done.

Originally Posted by tater

There are 2 camps on seasoning. One says salt early, one late. I salt early.

As for "searing the juices in" it's easy to demonstrate this is wrong. You can sear a steak, and cook one at lower heat for longer. Weigh both steaks before you cook them, and cook to identical target temperatures. Weigh both after. See if there is a difference in wight with each method.

The difference in weight would be minimal at best as the amount of juice you loose is about a couple of tablespoons. Most scales wouldn't even pick up the difference.

Searing doesn't really seal the juices in, though it will help a bit in keeping them in longer, particularly as the searing process drives the juices on the outside towards the center. Frankly I think it is mostly done for the caramelizing effect, and then the effect of driving juice inward. It is also how you get the first hash mark. Plus it helps prevent curling.

"Slow" for a steak doesn't mean hours, it means not blazing hot, and for a little longer time. Slow cook steaks are usually thick. I never buy steaks under 1.5 inches thick, and ideally 2". Lower temp and slower works just fine. I have done this and get cut with a fork steaks with a nice crust, though I usually sear, then move to over to finish since that's how I started doing it, and it feels more normal. For thick "slow" is worth a try for sure.

From my training I would cook anything over ~1/2 inch "slow" as you put it, or not on high heat, really thick cuts would go down even lower. Also if you are going for well done you need to drop the temperature a bit more so that the outside isn't burned.

Remember that on the outside of the steak you want it caramelized, not "charred." Brown (even very dark brown) is good, black means you're doing it wrong ("cept for the "grill" marks if grilling, those get pretty dark, I'm talking the overall non-striped part).

I agree though I tend to avoid really dark brown. One should also avoid any curling or liquid pooling on the top as that is a severe sign that the meat is being cooked too long on one side.

I never get anything "icky" with salting before hand, and I salt pretty liberally. I salt the steaks when I take em out of the fridge, too. They have salt for ~1 hour before cooking. It pulls water out of the surface—which is what "aging" does (concentrating flavor by reducing some of the water).

Have you ever tried not salting them until after they are cooked? As the salt pulls more than just water to the surface, and also that water is what helps keep meat tender (as opposed to tough). I would suggest trying it some time, take two identical cuts, salt one normally, and salt the other only when serving it. You should notice a good difference between them with the other one being more tender and juicer. Though perhaps you just prefer your meat that way.

Also aging is not entirely done for what you suggest, Aging decays the meat a bit and causes the muscle mass to relax from rigor mortis and break down due to enzymes. Dry aging does reduce the water content, but the area that looses most of the moisture is discarded. Also the steak gains tenderness even though it has lost ~10% of its moisture content, because of the muscle tissue breaking down, otherwise loss of moisture = greater toughness. Lastly they do not salt the meat, as salting it would draw out the moisture too fast and draw juices (flavor) with it. Water lost during aging is lost from slow evaporation at near freezing temperatures.

[Krauter]

OK, so don't salt the meat before cooking it. Does this also apply to spices (I have either Montreal Steak spice that I just sprinkle on both sides of the steak and rub in) or I have another steak rub that I use the same method.

What way do I apply said spices and, when do I apply these spices?

[Krauter]

Round Two tonight

Just heating up the BBQ now. I let the steaks sit for an hour out of the fridge and just put the steak rub on now.

Edit: Fuuuu- Goddam propane feed on the BBQ is fudged -.-. Pan fried abortion steaks here I come.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Round Two tonight

Just heating up the BBQ now. I let the steaks sit for an hour out of the fridge and just put the steak rub on now.

Good luck to ya, and enjoy.

It's too cold and snowy around these parts to fire up the barbeque, otherwise I'd try some of those techniques that NeonSamurai mentioned earlier. There is a lot that I don't know about cooking in general.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

That is an awesome tip. Thanks.

I've experimened with different techniques of cooking steaks-sometimes they are expensive experiments.

From what I've read and what has seemed to work best for me is the technique you talk about-Heat the grill 10-15 minutes, sear both sides, turn down the heat to medium, and cook to desired doneness(turning once more). Then let the meat rest.
I haven't quite perfected my technique bit I'm getting better.