Hu Jintao in US: Obama to host talks on thorny issues - Page 2

August · 01-20-11, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

For those of us with selective memory:

That's not a bow. Bush is only lowering his head so the King can put that medal around his neck.

tater · 01-20-11, 11:33 AM

The headline should have been, "The 2009 Peace Prize winner hosts dinner for the jailer of the 2010 Peace Prize winner."

(and kow tows to him)

Takeda Shingen · 01-20-11, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

That's not a bow. Bush is only lowering his head so the King can put that medal around his neck.

See it as you will, but it is still a sign of submission; not really different than a knighting.

August · 01-20-11, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

See it as you will, but it is still a sign of submission; not really different than a knighting.

Well I prefer to see it realistically. The act of tilting the head forward is not a sign of submission unless it is actually intended to be one.

I mean by your reasoning a MoH recipient or a winning Olympic athlete is giving a sign of submission when they hang the medal around his neck. Not likely.

Sailor Steve · 01-20-11, 12:21 PM

So, Obama bowing indicates submission? Or just respect? Or tradition?

It looks like we're picking nits here.

Takeda Shingen · 01-20-11, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Well I prefer to see it realistically. The act of tilting the head forward is not a sign of submission unless it is actually intended to be one.

I mean by your reasoning a MoH recipient or a winning Olympic athlete is giving a sign of submission when they hang the medal around his neck. Not likely.

Yes, it is submission. For both the MoH recipient or the Olympic athlete, the act of lowering the head so that the award is placed around the neck is a symbolic recognition of the authority of the awarding body, be it the United States government or the IOC. The act of awarding merit in such a manner has been established as a gesture of submission since Medieval times, where the regent would award the recipient, who would have his head bowed. So, yes, the President of the United States being awarded in this manner by an actual regent is a sign of submission. This is opposed to being handed an award, which is symbolic of recognition among equals.

August · 01-20-11, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So, Obama bowing indicates submission? Or just respect? Or tradition?

It looks like we're picking nits here.

Exactly. I've never seen Obamas bowing as anything but an attempt at showing common courtesy. It was done rather clumsly but we're talking about a guy whose wife thinks it's ok to pat the Queen of England on the back. I'm just glad he didn't puke on anyone...

Takeda Shingen · 01-20-11, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. I've never seen Obamas bowing as anything but an attempt at showing common courtesy. That is was done rather clumsly but we're talking about a guy whose wife thinks it's ok to pat the Queen of England on the back.

And really, this was my point in the entire argument. If it isn't a puposefully submissive statement for any of the others, then it is just courtesy. Clumsy courtesy, perhaps, but courtesy none the less.

August · 01-20-11, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And really, this was my point in the entire argument. If it isn't a puposefully submissive statement for any of the others, then it is just courtesy. Clumsy courtesy, perhaps, but courtesy none the less.

Well again that's why Bush's picture doesn't belong with the others.

He's bending over for purely utilitarian reasons. That head bowing thing might be required to get a knighthood but not to receive the MoH or Olympic medals.

Nothing that i've ever heard or read mandates that they bow to receive their award. They have to bend over only so the medal can be hung on them. If they were, say, 4 feet tall and the person hanging the medal was 6 feet tall then they'd still get their medal even if they kept their heads up straight.

Takeda Shingen · 01-20-11, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Well again that's why Bush's picture doesn't belong with the others.

He's bending over for purely utilitarian reasons. That head bowing thing might be required to get a knighthood but not to receive the MoH or Olympic medals.

Nothing that i've ever heard or read mandates that they bow to receive their award. They have to bend over only so the medal can be hung on them. If they were, say, 4 feet tall and the person hanging the medal was 6 feet tall then they'd still get their medal even if they kept their heads up straight.

The only reason that I know this is because all of the matriculation ceremonies that I am involved with. Candidates receiving a masters degree or doctorate have a seperate hooding ceremony, where the hood is placed on the neck in the same manner; symbolically acknowledging the authority of the institution to award degrees as it sees fit. Nowadays, a university would not withhold a degree so long as all course work is completed, but long ago, when these ceremonies were created, the university could refuse to award the degree as they saw fit, and frequently did so. We also joke about the mixed messages, as a candidate for a masters would have had to complete their undergraduate studies and recieve their bachelors degree, which is awarded through a handshake and handing of award; a sign of equals. Suddenly, they are being awarded the hood around the neck; a sign of submission.

Anyway, although it is a sign of submission, President Bush was in no way offering himself in obligation to the King of Saudi Arabia, just as President Obama was in no way presenting himself in vassalage to the Party of the Peoples' Republic of China. Ike was not signaling his inferiority to Charles de Gaulle, nor was Nixon submitting to the Chinese. That is exactly why the picutre does belong there.

AVGWarhawk · 01-20-11, 12:55 PM

Hu is a dictator!!!!!! Thanks Harry Reid.

August · 01-20-11, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

That is exactly why the picutre does belong there.

Ok have it your way then.

Bilge_Rat · 01-20-11, 03:10 PM

What I find surprising is all the press that China is now the second superpower after the USA...

...not sure what Putin thinks about that...

Gerald · 01-21-11, 06:14 PM

President Obama has warned Chinese President Hu Jintao that the United States would be compelled to redeploy its military forces in Asia if China does not take a firmer stance against North Korea, a senior administration official confirmed to Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...tary-presence/

Note: Update record, Published January 21, 2011

yubba · 01-21-11, 10:37 PM

Nice that the landlord could stop by too visit.

01-20-11, 12:21 PM	#20
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	So, Obama bowing indicates submission? Or just respect? Or tradition? It looks like we're picking nits here. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-20-11, 12:55 PM	#26
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,266 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Hu is a dictator!!!!!! Thanks Harry Reid. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

01-20-11, 03:10 PM	#28
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	What I find surprising is all the press that China is now the second superpower after the USA... ...not sure what Putin thinks about that... __________________

01-21-11, 06:14 PM	#29
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Obama Urges Hu to Pressure North Korea, Warns of Increased U.S. Military Presence President Obama has warned Chinese President Hu Jintao that the United States would be compelled to redeploy its military forces in Asia if China does not take a firmer stance against North Korea, a senior administration official confirmed to Fox News. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...tary-presence/ Note: Update record, Published January 21, 2011 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

01-20-11, 11:33 AM	#17
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The headline should have been, "The 2009 Peace Prize winner hosts dinner for the jailer of the 2010 Peace Prize winner." (and kow tows to him)

01-21-11, 10:37 PM	#30
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Nice that the landlord could stop by too visit.