Question about Mission designer - Page 2

Deep_Nukem · 01-19-11, 10:53 PM

Thank you both. In principle I understand you both, but in practice not so much. Subsonic? Could you perhaps walk me through (roughly) this from a target that is 6-8 miles out? How would you go about setting up the missle at this point?

I'm going to go play some right now. I have a new theory to test. I have to kill that damn pinging ship somehow. Not only does it drive me nuts but it also stops me from missle attacks against anything else. Anyway, rant off.

TLAM Strike · 01-19-11, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Nukem

Thank you both. In principle I understand you both, but in practice not so much. Subsonic? Could you perhaps walk me through (roughly) this from a target that is 6-8 miles out? How would you go about setting up the missle at this point?

Subsonic missiles incl. the Harpoon and Tomahawk. Attacks with them are strait forward assuming you have the proper target range, Set the enable range about two or three miles short of the target so they are not decoyed early by chaff. Minimum enable range is 5 miles so my minimum attack range is about 8 miles so the missiles will have three miles to acquire and correct their course. Assign weapons to the tubes and set the presets. I turn bow on to the target so the missiles have a strait run to the target and launch (from launch depth of course.) Simple as can be.

Deep_Nukem · 01-20-11, 02:32 AM

Ok gentleman, 80% of my problem was due to the fact that I didn't have a .doc viewer on my system, and I had not read through the LWAMI manual......which was idiotic on my part. Guilty.

I couldn't figure out why some of the weapons were not working for me. Confusion about wire guided torps (like the 65cm) Anyway, I finally knew something was up and decided to download a free .doc viewer and read through the LWAMI manual. A quick check on the changes to the Russian weapons showed me the 65cm is not wire guided, etc...etc...

I had saved a mission where I was in good shape for an attack, right before the attack if that makes sense. That way I could fire, test, and re-load the mission from the same point and test some more. Once I started NOT using the 65cm and STARTED using the 53-67 (is it?) torpedo....wow....I finally was able to sink at least one surface ship that was pinging me.

The point is, I think now I am on the right track having wrapped my head around the new weapons changes. I was always pretty good with the sonar and the overal "management" of the sub...but you can put yourself in the best position in the world, but if you're using the wrong weapon, it's not going to work out so well for you. Lol.

Alright, so, now that I have that part figured out (or at least on the right track).....would you gentlemen tell your typical setup for an attack on a surface ship, and a submerged sub?

The reason I ask is twofold. For one thing, as I said yesterday, I'm having trouble hitting anything at a long range because I most likely was using the wrong weapon AND the AI is very good now at evading. Everything I tried yesterday at long range resulted in me getting killed, AND not a single hit on my part. (which was probably due to me using wrong weapons in not the right situation, etc..etc..which I think I have fixed now)

Second: The "saved" mission I was doing just now had that pinging ship at roughly 5500 yrds, Bearing 330 with me sitting at about a 300 heading approaching from the south, heading northly (me) towards him. Pretty much dead on ahead. (IMHO) I said I was "testing" a theory. Well it didn't work out so well. I fired a SHKVAL at him, AND I DID HIT HIM...

However, it only did about 10% damage, and by that time he had two torps in the water and I died quickly.

So it was at that point I read the LWAMI manual

I went back in, and used the SHKVAL again, ALONG WITH the 53cm and I managed to kill him this time outright.

, however, I was still a sitting duck and again he had gotten off 2 torps and killed me.

So like I said, I'm pretty good with putting with boat where it needs to be, and pretty good with sonar and finding them, etc....but when it comes to actual tactics, I suck. Badly apparently because I can't hit anything at long range, and I can't escape in short range.

So what do you guys do? What's your typical approach? I think if I had someone give me a "proper" lesson (rough) in tactics , along with the new found knowledge of the changed weapons in LWAMI, I might finally have the lightbulb go off in my head and start having some fun instead of being frustrated. See what I mean?

Thanks guys. I'm at least starting to like this again. Yesterday I couldn't kill anything. Today I actually learned about the weapons changes, realized I wasn't using the proper weapon for my situation, and then choose at least a better weapon for my situation and I was able to kill at least one of the contacts. So hey, progress.....

Deep_Nukem · 01-20-11, 02:44 AM

PS TLAM, thank you for your response, and I'm grateful to Mono too for making me a dynamic playground. In response to your response, what I was hoping for specificly was your "preset" practices. I seem to get a little confused in that area. With regards to both missles and torps. Dont get me wrong, I'm not a complete idiot, just partial.

I know how to set the heading and rough distance and so forth but like the depth, ceiling, floor settings and run to enable confuse me some. Not so much individually because they pretty much speak for themselves, but it's when I have to combine all of them that I get twisted up.

And the missles....only has two settings right? Something like "destroy after xx miles" or maybe it's destruct range. Anyway, I know what that one means but it's the other one I have trouble with. Knowing when how to far to set it to enable. (missles) If you don't know what I'm talking about the defaults are set to:

Destruct range 50 mi
??(Enable range) 5 mi

And of course seeker "wide" or "Narrow" - not sure why you'd ever set it to narrow but that's just me. Perhaps if you're in a crowded environment?? That must be it? Two ships (one civilian) and (one bad guy) very close to each other. Set it to narrow for the bad guy. Other than that I don't know why you'd ever set it to narrow. Thanks again. Look forward to reading your response. And thank you for helping everyone else too. I know both you guys have been around for a long time. I lurk.

Molon Labe · 01-20-11, 03:14 AM

I've put most of my tactical knowledge in CADC threads in this forum.

I'd start with ASUW and ASW weapons employment, then torpedo evasion, and then do to Basic ASW Tactics and finally Differential ASW Tactics.

By the way, in that TMA practice mission, I have the hostile forces set to Peacetime ROE so you can practice w/o being shot at. If you're going to use this as combat practice, you should probably edit the mission to set them to Wartime ROE.

Deep_Nukem · 01-20-11, 05:22 AM

Ok, sounds good but I searched through there real quick looking for this information: > How to change / manipulate torpedo depth???

Seems like in stock DW this was not possible, but how about with LWAMI?
Would be great if you could go below the layer, fire your torpedo below the layer and have it run at the ships depth UNTIL it "enabled" and then pop up to the surface when it went active. Is this possible?

OneShot · 01-20-11, 09:28 AM

That is - if memory serves correctly - actually the standard behaviour in DW. The torp stays when fired at the depth you shot him at until it is enabled at which time it will go to the preset depth.

Deep_Nukem · 01-20-11, 03:24 PM

One shot, I had some success last night with the UGST 53 cm with firing at depth. Yes it held Own Ship depth until it enabled. Which was nice. And what do you know, I killed the Arleigh Burke.

However, I can say without a doubt that with either the 53-65 or the 65cm (can't remember which one at the moment) one of those two definitely rises to "search depth" as soon as I fired it. I tested this quite a few times.

TLAM Strike · 01-20-11, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Nukem

However, I can say without a doubt that with either the 53-65 or the 65cm (can't remember which one at the moment) one of those two definitely rises to "search depth" as soon as I fired it. I tested this quite a few times.

Those two are both Wake Homing torpedoes and go shallow right after launch.

Molon Labe · 01-20-11, 05:05 PM

I figured out the DB error.

For 3.11, I've been adding 60hz versions of 50hz civilian ships. The Powerboat in this practice mission was one of these new additions, so you don't have it in your database. You can fix it just by opening up the editor and replacing the "Ady Gil" with a powerboat that you actually have.

Deep_Nukem · 01-20-11, 05:47 PM

Hate to ask but, is there a torpedo doctrine break down relating to Lwami 3.10? I'm getting used to the new weapons changes but I've read thread after thread doing search after search about this topic and I'm finding stuff from like 2006-2007 that is talking about how using the "preenable" button 1 click does this, 2 clicks does that, etc.....and I'm wondering if this info is still valid today. It was pretty much advanced torpedo control.

If it still exists, I can't find it.

ASWnut101 · 01-20-11, 06:03 PM

As far as I'm aware, advanced wire controls were only added for the UUV. You can find information on this on page 7 of the LWAMI 3.10 read me .doc.

TLAM Strike · 01-20-11, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Nukem

And the missles....only has two settings right? Something like "destroy after xx miles" or maybe it's destruct range. Anyway, I know what that one means but it's the other one I have trouble with. Knowing when how to far to set it to enable. (missles) If you don't know what I'm talking about the defaults are set to:

Destruct range 50 mi
??(Enable range) 5 mi

And of course seeker "wide" or "Narrow" - not sure why you'd ever set it to narrow but that's just me. Perhaps if you're in a crowded environment?? That must be it? Two ships (one civilian) and (one bad guy) very close to each other. Set it to narrow for the bad guy. Other than that I don't know why you'd ever set it to narrow. Thanks again. Look forward to reading your response. And thank you for helping everyone else too. I know both you guys have been around for a long time. I lurk.

Missile Settings:

Enable Range: Set this a few miles short of your target. Having it arm too early will give the target extra warning of an attack (especially if its under EMCON) and increases the likelihood of the missile locking on to a decoy.

Destruct Range: Range when the missile shuts down. Set few miles beyond the target or at maxim. This prevents you from hitting neutral or friendly ships.

Seeker [Narrow/Wide]: You were on the right track. Use narrow when there are neutrals about or if you don't want to target escorts in a formation. But if there are neutrals mixed close with hostiles use wireguided torpedoes.

Deep_Nukem · 01-21-11, 05:38 AM

Cool. Thanks. Killed an Arleigh Burke tonight. Finally.

01-19-11, 10:53 PM	#16
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thank you both. In principle I understand you both, but in practice not so much. Subsonic? Could you perhaps walk me through (roughly) this from a target that is 6-8 miles out? How would you go about setting up the missle at this point? I'm going to go play some right now. I have a new theory to test. I have to kill that damn pinging ship somehow. Not only does it drive me nuts but it also stops me from missle attacks against anything else. Anyway, rant off. __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 02:32 AM	#18
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Ok gentleman, 80% of my problem was due to the fact that I didn't have a .doc viewer on my system, and I had not read through the LWAMI manual......which was idiotic on my part. Guilty. I couldn't figure out why some of the weapons were not working for me. Confusion about wire guided torps (like the 65cm) Anyway, I finally knew something was up and decided to download a free .doc viewer and read through the LWAMI manual. A quick check on the changes to the Russian weapons showed me the 65cm is not wire guided, etc...etc... I had saved a mission where I was in good shape for an attack, right before the attack if that makes sense. That way I could fire, test, and re-load the mission from the same point and test some more. Once I started NOT using the 65cm and STARTED using the 53-67 (is it?) torpedo....wow....I finally was able to sink at least one surface ship that was pinging me. The point is, I think now I am on the right track having wrapped my head around the new weapons changes. I was always pretty good with the sonar and the overal "management" of the sub...but you can put yourself in the best position in the world, but if you're using the wrong weapon, it's not going to work out so well for you. Lol. Alright, so, now that I have that part figured out (or at least on the right track).....would you gentlemen tell your typical setup for an attack on a surface ship, and a submerged sub? The reason I ask is twofold. For one thing, as I said yesterday, I'm having trouble hitting anything at a long range because I most likely was using the wrong weapon AND the AI is very good now at evading. Everything I tried yesterday at long range resulted in me getting killed, AND not a single hit on my part. (which was probably due to me using wrong weapons in not the right situation, etc..etc..which I think I have fixed now) Second: The "saved" mission I was doing just now had that pinging ship at roughly 5500 yrds, Bearing 330 with me sitting at about a 300 heading approaching from the south, heading northly (me) towards him. Pretty much dead on ahead. (IMHO) I said I was "testing" a theory. Well it didn't work out so well. I fired a SHKVAL at him, AND I DID HIT HIM... However, it only did about 10% damage, and by that time he had two torps in the water and I died quickly. So it was at that point I read the LWAMI manual I went back in, and used the SHKVAL again, ALONG WITH the 53cm and I managed to kill him this time outright. , however, I was still a sitting duck and again he had gotten off 2 torps and killed me. So like I said, I'm pretty good with putting with boat where it needs to be, and pretty good with sonar and finding them, etc....but when it comes to actual tactics, I suck. Badly apparently because I can't hit anything at long range, and I can't escape in short range. So what do you guys do? What's your typical approach? I think if I had someone give me a "proper" lesson (rough) in tactics , along with the new found knowledge of the changed weapons in LWAMI, I might finally have the lightbulb go off in my head and start having some fun instead of being frustrated. See what I mean? Thanks guys. I'm at least starting to like this again. Yesterday I couldn't kill anything. Today I actually learned about the weapons changes, realized I wasn't using the proper weapon for my situation, and then choose at least a better weapon for my situation and I was able to kill at least one of the contacts. So hey, progress..... __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 02:44 AM	#19
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	PS TLAM, thank you for your response, and I'm grateful to Mono too for making me a dynamic playground. In response to your response, what I was hoping for specificly was your "preset" practices. I seem to get a little confused in that area. With regards to both missles and torps. Dont get me wrong, I'm not a complete idiot, just partial. I know how to set the heading and rough distance and so forth but like the depth, ceiling, floor settings and run to enable confuse me some. Not so much individually because they pretty much speak for themselves, but it's when I have to combine all of them that I get twisted up. And the missles....only has two settings right? Something like "destroy after xx miles" or maybe it's destruct range. Anyway, I know what that one means but it's the other one I have trouble with. Knowing when how to far to set it to enable. (missles) If you don't know what I'm talking about the defaults are set to: Destruct range 50 mi ??(Enable range) 5 mi And of course seeker "wide" or "Narrow" - not sure why you'd ever set it to narrow but that's just me. Perhaps if you're in a crowded environment?? That must be it? Two ships (one civilian) and (one bad guy) very close to each other. Set it to narrow for the bad guy. Other than that I don't know why you'd ever set it to narrow. Thanks again. Look forward to reading your response. And thank you for helping everyone else too. I know both you guys have been around for a long time. I lurk. __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 03:14 AM	#20
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I've put most of my tactical knowledge in CADC threads in this forum. I'd start with ASUW and ASW weapons employment, then torpedo evasion, and then do to Basic ASW Tactics and finally Differential ASW Tactics. By the way, in that TMA practice mission, I have the hostile forces set to Peacetime ROE so you can practice w/o being shot at. If you're going to use this as combat practice, you should probably edit the mission to set them to Wartime ROE. __________________ Last edited by Molon Labe; 01-20-11 at 03:49 AM.

01-20-11, 05:22 AM	#21
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Ok, sounds good but I searched through there real quick looking for this information: > How to change / manipulate torpedo depth??? Seems like in stock DW this was not possible, but how about with LWAMI? Would be great if you could go below the layer, fire your torpedo below the layer and have it run at the ships depth UNTIL it "enabled" and then pop up to the surface when it went active. Is this possible? __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 09:28 AM	#22
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	That is - if memory serves correctly - actually the standard behaviour in DW. The torp stays when fired at the depth you shot him at until it is enabled at which time it will go to the preset depth. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

01-20-11, 03:24 PM	#23
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	One shot, I had some success last night with the UGST 53 cm with firing at depth. Yes it held Own Ship depth until it enabled. Which was nice. And what do you know, I killed the Arleigh Burke. However, I can say without a doubt that with either the 53-65 or the 65cm (can't remember which one at the moment) one of those two definitely rises to "search depth" as soon as I fired it. I tested this quite a few times. __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 05:05 PM	#25
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I figured out the DB error. For 3.11, I've been adding 60hz versions of 50hz civilian ships. The Powerboat in this practice mission was one of these new additions, so you don't have it in your database. You can fix it just by opening up the editor and replacing the "Ady Gil" with a powerboat that you actually have. __________________

01-20-11, 05:47 PM	#26
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hate to ask but, is there a torpedo doctrine break down relating to Lwami 3.10? I'm getting used to the new weapons changes but I've read thread after thread doing search after search about this topic and I'm finding stuff from like 2006-2007 that is talking about how using the "preenable" button 1 click does this, 2 clicks does that, etc.....and I'm wondering if this info is still valid today. It was pretty much advanced torpedo control. If it still exists, I can't find it. __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.

01-20-11, 06:03 PM	#27
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	As far as I'm aware, advanced wire controls were only added for the UUV. You can find information on this on page 7 of the LWAMI 3.10 read me .doc. __________________

01-21-11, 05:38 AM	#29
Deep_Nukem Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 52 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Cool. Thanks. Killed an Arleigh Burke tonight. Finally. __________________ There is no need to run........you are already dead.