Radar Display Question?

CapnScurvy · 01-14-11, 09:06 PM

I've been looking at the "A scope" radar display and I'm wondering if anyone knows how to have the blip rendered in the correct "size" for the range the target is positioned. From what I know about the A scope, the closer the object, the taller the spike, and the nearer the left side of the scope since this is where the energy for the signal comes from. The position of the spike seems ok, but the size is smaller than the spikes of a target at greater distance from the sub. This is wrong. Now I know for those of you who have looked into the Radars in the game you can't help but to shake your head at how 'backwards" everything is. From calling the PPI screen the A scope on the HUD buttons, to having the Radar parameters do exactly the opposite of what they should do. Most of this can be corrected once you know which end is up. However, the smaller spike size for the closest target has stumped me so far.

Below are some stock game images with the PPI screen showing the furthest target being found first as it makes its sweep. Notice the A scopes tall spike. As the the sweep continues, the targets I've set up draw nearer in range until about the 90 degree bearing which has the target at 1000 yards. On the last image, the spike of the nearest ship ends up having the smallest spike?!

Again, any help or insite would be appreciated.

Hitman · 01-15-11, 02:49 AM

It's a bug in SH4

Nisgeis already discovered it long ago when he was working on his radar mod. He corrected it to a certain extent by offsetting the 2D surface on which the radar signal is rendered and thus distorting it in an asymetric form, so that nearer spikes result bigger.

Nisgeis · 01-15-11, 04:05 AM

Hi CapnScurvy, the radar is also bizarrely affected by whether you are in a campaign or on a single mission. In a single mission the pips are smaller than they are in the campaign mode.

The only value that I found would affect the height of pips was the SweepArc value. The higher this is, the closer the ships have to get before their pips start shrinking. That's still backwards though. I think the game is using a 'how much of the ship is visible within a radar arc (or cone)' basis for pip height. The closer the ship, the less of the model is in the arc and the weaker the signal. The 'Surface' parameter controls at what distance the ship is first detected, but doesn't control pip height.

Another problem is what the radar man reports does not always correspond to what is shown on the radar.

Hitman's talking about re UV mapping the radar screen so that the signal is increased closer to the left hand side, which would also increase noise close to the boat and be fairly realistic, but you'd have to create some new screens for the higher ranges and map them differently, as they'd not be the same.

CapnScurvy · 01-15-11, 06:26 AM

Hi Nisegis and Hitman, if every there were two guys that know their stuff about the Radar setup it would be you two.

This phenomenon is a stinker. I can't help but to think there is some game parameter that is setup backwards that controls the whole group. Messing around in the Cameras.dat file and just about every single entry is "backward" to what it should be. Like the HUD buttons mix up, the A scope node is really the PPI. The rotation axis parameter of Y = left and right, X = up and down? A "-" parameter means to move right?! It's the same for the USSubParts/Sensors_Sub_US.sim file. When I changed the Elevation parameter to do the opposite of what I figured it would do (the way the stock figures are set), I was able to have the radar find the target that was just sitting off 1000 yards from the sub!! Before this, the radar passed over targets as if they weren't there. Just dumb stuff that makes the stock game Radar station useless.

I'm surprised to hear the game looks at the Campaign differently than the Missions for the radar setup. Well not too surprised considering!! Thanks for the response. I'm going to still dig a bit further to see what I can find, the point is the one parameter that we think is correct, is the one we may need to change.

I'm goin' down · 01-18-11, 10:26 PM

Nisgeis, CapnScury and Hitman -- hmm. Are you meeting in Pottsdam?

01-15-11, 02:49 AM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	It's a bug in SH4 Nisgeis already discovered it long ago when he was working on his radar mod. He corrected it to a certain extent by offsetting the 2D surface on which the radar signal is rendered and thus distorting it in an asymetric form, so that nearer spikes result bigger. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

01-15-11, 04:05 AM	#3
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Hi CapnScurvy, the radar is also bizarrely affected by whether you are in a campaign or on a single mission. In a single mission the pips are smaller than they are in the campaign mode. The only value that I found would affect the height of pips was the SweepArc value. The higher this is, the closer the ships have to get before their pips start shrinking. That's still backwards though. I think the game is using a 'how much of the ship is visible within a radar arc (or cone)' basis for pip height. The closer the ship, the less of the model is in the arc and the weaker the signal. The 'Surface' parameter controls at what distance the ship is first detected, but doesn't control pip height. Another problem is what the radar man reports does not always correspond to what is shown on the radar. Hitman's talking about re UV mapping the radar screen so that the signal is increased closer to the left hand side, which would also increase noise close to the boat and be fairly realistic, but you'd have to create some new screens for the higher ranges and map them differently, as they'd not be the same. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

01-18-11, 10:26 PM	#5
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	The big three! Nisgeis, CapnScury and Hitman -- hmm. Are you meeting in Pottsdam? Last edited by I'm goin' down; 01-21-11 at 09:45 PM.