Restricting Violent Speech

tater · 01-13-11, 08:10 PM

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No limits, period.

Sometimes we have to hear stuff we don't like. People need to get over it.

What part of "Congress shall make no law" do the idiots in Washington have trouble understanding?

August · 01-13-11, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

What part of "Congress shall make no law" do the idiots in Washington have trouble understanding?

Agree. But how do we discourage them from continuing to try?

Castout · 01-13-11, 10:40 PM

Since when political speech became hate speech?

US politics have degenerated from graceful and respectful to ugly and insulting and embarrassing since Obama came to office.

The Republicans found themselves as if sitting on a frying pan while watching Obama in the white house. They found themselves that their butts are on fire and they go all the way out using every media channel they have to start this ugly political division. Some people took it as it is some others naively bought everything that's been said.

Both parties need to realize they are supposed to work for the country's best interest rather than for their own political party. The feuding is childish and embarrassing and I view it with certain disgust and shows to great extent that even great many of American politicians are not so ready to be democratic and play politics gracefully with ethics. It wasn't like this before. When Bill Clinton took office the Republicans seemed to be able to accept that a democrat was now taking office. Stop inciting hate when making political speech. The enemy is not your fellow countrymen. Tough economy outlook and deteriorating character in general are your main problem.

One corrupt man in a country of a thousand may think he's privileged to be corrupt but sooner of later his behavior will be copied and suddenly the numbers multiply a hundred times and the country will become corrupt in general. Out of this deteriorating situation the general population soon will learn that character is unappreciated and may even impede one's advantage and copy the corrupt behavior they see in their leaders and the whole society will degenerate into chaos and crumbles. That's how great civilizations and empires came to an end. If only historians had been more detailed in their record keeping we would've learned this ages ago. There's motive to every historic fact. The facts get recorded the motives don't unfortunately.

disclaimer: But then again this is only my 2 cents worth.

Sailor Steve · 01-13-11, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

US politics have degenerated from graceful and respectful to ugly and insulting and embarrassing since Obama came to office.

Did you somehow manage to miss this entire page? US politics has never been "graceful and respectful", and is in fact much milder that it was in the past.

Ducimus · 01-13-11, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Did you somehow manage to miss this entire page? US politics has never been "graceful and respectful",

Agree.

Quote:

and is in fact much milder that it was in the past.

Disagree. Been way too much rhetoric, slander, acqusations, and other misc BS over the last couple years. If not in quantity, certainly in the amount of emotion behind them.

Sailor Steve · 01-13-11, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Disagree. Been way too much rhetoric, slander, acqusations, and other misc BS over the last couple years. If not in quantity, certainly in the amount of emotion behind them.

True, but since the thread is about restricting such speech, I think it's a point that no newspaper today would ever print the kinds of things they did then.

Castout · 01-13-11, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Did you somehow manage to miss this entire page? US politics has never been "graceful and respectful", and is in fact much milder that it was in the past.

To that I simply say I disagree

As stated by Ducimus too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Disagree. Been way too much rhetoric, slander, acqusations, and other misc BS over the last couple years. If not in quantity, certainly in the amount of emotion behind them.

August · 01-13-11, 11:43 PM

Therein lies the difference between now and then I think. The present concern is over quality and it's obvious that there is much more restraint now than back in the day, but it could easily be that sheer quantity now has a far greater effect.

After all, mudslinging in previous times was a much more localized affair. No matter how bad the attack it was only seen by it's local subscribers and by just a few people in other cities sometimes months later. Nowadays anyone with access to the internet can instantly reach far more people than the most popular newspaper ever could with the presses running day and night.

Wolfehunter · 01-16-11, 12:48 PM

Soon in the future in the world you will be told how to wipe your a$$ with your right hand.. You will be told when and how to have sex with your partner.. How to eat.. How to drink.. What to watch.. holy**** its happing already..

If you people don't take back your Country your all screwed. How many more rights do they have to take from you before it clicks?

Platapus · 01-16-11, 06:23 PM

Exactly what rights have been "taken away" from us?

Last time I checked, I was enjoying all my rights.

CaptainHaplo · 01-16-11, 08:16 PM

This thread is violent and should be restricted. The mere presence of a mob (see post #84) is enough to have it shut down. Disperse the lot of ye, or the fed's will be in here whacking skulls!

August · 01-16-11, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

This thread is violent and should be restricted. The mere presence of a mob (see post #84) is enough to have it shut down. Disperse the lot of ye, or the fed's will be in here whacking skulls!

Takeda Shingen · 01-13-11, 08:39 PM

I think that enough of the guys on this forum, August, Haplo, Aramike and tater to name a few, have laid out the case that vitriol is not new and it is certainly not worse than it was in the past. Jefferson was accused of favoring gang rapes, cannibalism and forced incest during campaign season. I am guitly as anyone in being biased against the political through simply being burnt out on it, and I think that this is the key.

Jefferson didn't have 24-hour news channels, internet blogs and twitter. The 18th century voter wasn't bombarded by knee-jerk pundits and news anchors trying to make a name of themselves through 'gotcha' questions. It was the media that fed this vitriol in the name of ratings, and now that they created the monster they suddenly want to disown it. So no, restricting political speech accomplishes nothing, as the problem is still there. The media will continue it's frenzied search for the juiciest soundbytes, the biggest slip-up, the most inflamatory speech.

CaptainHaplo · 01-13-11, 08:50 PM

Wow Takeda - can you link some info on Jefferson that shows that? I have never heard it before and am interested where that data is.

I do agree with your point - its going to happen. Its unfortunate - but its not the cause of violence. IF - God forfend - IF civilians take up arms against the government, it will be because the government has failed the people, not because of some extremist on either side telling people to do it.

Tater - Congress and the Judiciary threw out "free speech" when they got involved in allowing Congress to try and institute incumbent re-election insurance oops sorry thats election "reform".

Takeda Shingen · 01-13-11, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Wow Takeda - can you link some info on Jefferson that shows that? I have never heard it before and am interested where that data is.

http://millercenter.org/academic/ame...ys/biography/3

Go to the second section entitled 'The Campaign and Election of 1800'. It's in the third paragraph:

Murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes

Here's a collection of some others with reference links:

http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/29/so...ck-ads-circa-1

And someone posted a mock attack ad on YouTube using the various quotes. Very, very funny:

01-13-11, 10:40 PM	#3
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Since when political speech became hate speech? US politics have degenerated from graceful and respectful to ugly and insulting and embarrassing since Obama came to office. The Republicans found themselves as if sitting on a frying pan while watching Obama in the white house. They found themselves that their butts are on fire and they go all the way out using every media channel they have to start this ugly political division. Some people took it as it is some others naively bought everything that's been said. Both parties need to realize they are supposed to work for the country's best interest rather than for their own political party. The feuding is childish and embarrassing and I view it with certain disgust and shows to great extent that even great many of American politicians are not so ready to be democratic and play politics gracefully with ethics. It wasn't like this before. When Bill Clinton took office the Republicans seemed to be able to accept that a democrat was now taking office. Stop inciting hate when making political speech. The enemy is not your fellow countrymen. Tough economy outlook and deteriorating character in general are your main problem. One corrupt man in a country of a thousand may think he's privileged to be corrupt but sooner of later his behavior will be copied and suddenly the numbers multiply a hundred times and the country will become corrupt in general. Out of this deteriorating situation the general population soon will learn that character is unappreciated and may even impede one's advantage and copy the corrupt behavior they see in their leaders and the whole society will degenerate into chaos and crumbles. That's how great civilizations and empires came to an end. If only historians had been more detailed in their record keeping we would've learned this ages ago. There's motive to every historic fact. The facts get recorded the motives don't unfortunately. disclaimer: But then again this is only my 2 cents worth. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/ Last edited by Castout; 01-13-11 at 11:04 PM.

01-16-11, 12:48 PM	#9
Wolfehunter Crusty Capt. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,752 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 25	Soon in the future in the world you will be told how to wipe your a$$ with your right hand.. You will be told when and how to have sex with your partner.. How to eat.. How to drink.. What to watch.. holy**** its happing already.. If you people don't take back your Country your all screwed. How many more rights do they have to take from you before it clicks? __________________

01-16-11, 06:23 PM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Exactly what rights have been "taken away" from us? Last time I checked, I was enjoying all my rights. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-16-11, 08:16 PM	#11
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	This thread is violent and should be restricted. The mere presence of a mob (see post #84) is enough to have it shut down. Disperse the lot of ye, or the fed's will be in here whacking skulls! __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

01-13-11, 08:50 PM	#14
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Wow Takeda - can you link some info on Jefferson that shows that? I have never heard it before and am interested where that data is. I do agree with your point - its going to happen. Its unfortunate - but its not the cause of violence. IF - God forfend - IF civilians take up arms against the government, it will be because the government has failed the people, not because of some extremist on either side telling people to do it. Tater - Congress and the Judiciary threw out "free speech" when they got involved in allowing Congress to try and institute incumbent re-election insurance oops sorry thats election "reform". __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

01-13-11, 08:10 PM	#1
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. No limits, period. Sometimes we have to hear stuff we don't like. People need to get over it. What part of "Congress shall make no law" do the idiots in Washington have trouble understanding?

01-13-11, 11:43 PM	#8
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Therein lies the difference between now and then I think. The present concern is over quality and it's obvious that there is much more restraint now than back in the day, but it could easily be that sheer quantity now has a far greater effect. After all, mudslinging in previous times was a much more localized affair. No matter how bad the attack it was only seen by it's local subscribers and by just a few people in other cities sometimes months later. Nowadays anyone with access to the internet can instantly reach far more people than the most popular newspaper ever could with the presses running day and night. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

01-13-11, 08:39 PM	#13
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I think that enough of the guys on this forum, August, Haplo, Aramike and tater to name a few, have laid out the case that vitriol is not new and it is certainly not worse than it was in the past. Jefferson was accused of favoring gang rapes, cannibalism and forced incest during campaign season. I am guitly as anyone in being biased against the political through simply being burnt out on it, and I think that this is the key. Jefferson didn't have 24-hour news channels, internet blogs and twitter. The 18th century voter wasn't bombarded by knee-jerk pundits and news anchors trying to make a name of themselves through 'gotcha' questions. It was the media that fed this vitriol in the name of ratings, and now that they created the monster they suddenly want to disown it. So no, restricting political speech accomplishes nothing, as the problem is still there. The media will continue it's frenzied search for the juiciest soundbytes, the biggest slip-up, the most inflamatory speech.