Real life periscope usage question.

Vaux · 01-12-11, 02:32 PM

Were periscopes ever used on the surface as a sort of a "high watch" supplement to the guys with binoculars on the bridge? It seems that it would have significantly increased the observational range.

As far as the game is concerned, does running on the surface with periscope extended increase your observational range? (Running SH4 1.5, TMO 2.0 with the Beta patch.)

Takao · 01-12-11, 06:14 PM

1. Yes, many skippers did this, since the raised periscope increased the maximum viewing distance(weather permitting).

2. AFAIK, no the "vanilla" game does not take this into account. The viewing distance is artificially limited to, IIRC, 9,000 meters or 12,000 meters. Although I think there was a mod that extended it out to 16,000 meters. Not sure how TMO or RFB handled it.

For instances, US submarine skippers first inkling of a nearby ship was smoke on the horizon, which could often be seen a great distance(Japan still used a lot of coal burning ships) and well before the ship actually came into view. The game does not take this into account because you would probably need a supercomputer to run such a sim.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-12-11, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takao

1. Yes, many skippers did this, since the raised periscope increased the maximum viewing distance(weather permitting).

2. AFAIK, no the "vanilla" game does not take this into account. The viewing distance is artificially limited to, IIRC, 9,000 meters or 12,000 meters. Although I think there was a mod that extended it out to 16,000 meters. Not sure how TMO or RFB handled it.

For instances, US submarine skippers first inkling of a nearby ship was smoke on the horizon, which could often be seen a great distance(Japan still used a lot of coal burning ships) and well before the ship actually came into view. The game does not take this into account because you would probably need a supercomputer to run such a sim.

There is a mod on here called "better smoke merchants and warships" its great, gives merchants the thick high rising black smoke and warships the light whispy smoke, really helps with visual tracking and can see them from many miles away.

Fish40 · 01-13-11, 01:27 PM

It is a great mod, I've used it for awhile! But you still probrably can't see past the limits of the game rendering. In reality though, that black smoke would be visible from further away for sure.

Platapus · 01-13-11, 08:29 PM

The actual term was "High Periscope Watch"

Armistead · 01-13-11, 09:06 PM

I know the game map is basically flat, but often you just see the mast of ships on the horizon. Makes we wonder if a higher look you would see more of the ship from the same distance, or will ships just render this way regardless. Appears to me they render this way even with scope up on the surface, but I haven't really tested it, so I don't know if a higher scope even improves how much of the ship you see at the same distance as say the binocs.

TorpX · 01-15-11, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takao

For instances, US submarine skippers first inkling of a nearby ship was smoke on the horizon, which could often be seen a great distance(Japan still used a lot of coal burning ships) and well before the ship actually came into view. The game does not take this into account because you would probably need a supercomputer to run such a sim.

Not true. There is no reason they couldn't have simulated this. In fact, in SHCE, they did.

It is, to me, the most frustrating aspect of Sh4; things that were correctly (albeit simply) modeled in the first generation sim, were bungled in Sh4.

P.S. Does anybody know if it is the same in Sh3?

Armistead · 01-16-11, 12:24 AM

Well, I can see the smoke long before the ship playing TMO RSRD, plus the smoke mod for merchant and warships.

razark · 01-16-11, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

Not true. There is no reason they couldn't have simulated this. In fact, in SHCE, they did.

Aces of the Deep did as well. I remember the map screen had a circle that showed your visual detection range. Raise the scope, the circle got larger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

It is, to me, the most frustrating aspect of Sh4; things that were correctly (albeit simply) modeled in the first generation sim, were bungled in Sh4.

There have been a few threads about that. There was one in the SH5 forum about features that were available, but no longer appear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

P.S. Does anybody know if it is the same in Sh3?

I believe it's the same in SH3 as in SH4. (And things that were in SH3 are no longer in SH4. When I first played SH4, one of the things that really annoyed me was how dead the interior seemed, compared to SH3. Thankfully, the moders have really come through and fixed things. I really wish that SH4 had half the attention that SH3 got, but for some reason, the u-boats seem to have a lot more fans.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Well, I can see the smoke long before the ship playing TMO RSRD, plus the smoke mod for merchant and warships.

True. But in AotD, you had a crewmember actually screaming out "Smoke on the horizon!" It's been quite a long time since I've heard that. Hell, half the time, I'm visually tracking a target before the crew notices. Earlier today, I had the TDC set up for a while before I heard "Ship spotted!" Gee, thanks, fellas.

Hitman · 01-16-11, 04:49 AM

Just to clarify some things:

-In SH4 1.4 and in 1.5 you actually have a maximum visible environment of 20km around your submarine

-Earth curvature is simulated, and you will see masts and smoke over the horizon. But visual sensors are not affected by this, they will see a mast tip same as a full ship hull. However, sensors are tweaked to be affected by distance, so in the end the result is similar.

TorpX · 01-16-11, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Just to clarify some things:

-In SH4 1.4 and in 1.5 you actually have a maximum visible environment of 20km around your submarine

-Earth curvature is simulated, and you will see masts and smoke over the horizon. But visual sensors are not affected by this, they will see a mast tip same as a full ship hull. However, sensors are tweaked to be affected by distance, so in the end the result is similar.

Thanks for the info.

Does raising the periscope while surfaced, or, for that matter, planing up a few feet from P/S depth have any effect?

Vaux · 01-17-11, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

*Snip*
True. But in AotD, you had a crewmember actually screaming out "Smoke on the horizon!" It's been quite a long time since I've heard that. Hell, half the time, I'm visually tracking a target before the crew notices. Earlier today, I had the TDC set up for a while before I heard "Ship spotted!" Gee, thanks, fellas.

I find that highly frustrating as well. I've learned that if I'm running in TC and get "the lag", about 75% of the time, if I go up on deck and scan the horizon, I'll see smoke columns. I wish there was some way to grab the deck watch by the scruffs of their necks, shake them around a bit, point at the smoke columns and yell: "SEE THAT?! THAT'S IMPORTANT!!!!"

TorpX · 01-17-11, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaux

I find that highly frustrating as well. I've learned that if I'm running in TC and get "the lag", about 75% of the time, if I go up on deck and scan the horizon, I'll see smoke columns. I wish there was some way to grab the deck watch by the scruffs of their necks, shake them around a bit, point at the smoke columns and yell: "SEE THAT?! THAT'S IMPORTANT!!!!"

I feel the same way. They don't really contribute much do they?

This is my most memorable experience with my crewmen:

I was in my S-boat on the surface late at night, tracking a Momi class patrol boat. I was abeam of her on a parallel course making a careful plot. There was no hurry as sunrise was hours away. Unbeknowest to me the moon had risen close to the horizon and the sky had lightened just enough to make us visible. I was at the maps, when I heard a faint tearing sound. I looked around and everything seemed to be functioning ok, so I went back to my plot. A minute later I hear it again..not loud. I wonder if its some kind of mechanical sound effect or maybe a software/computer bug. I go up to the bridge to look around and see the patrol boat is still on a parallel course, the watch calmly standing around. I am looking at Momi PB (still broad on the starboard beam), when I see a red flash, followed a second later by the loud ripping sound of a shell flying overhead. (The third one!) With a surge of adrenalin, I order CRASH DIVE!, and silently curse the Ubisoft Dept. of Personel for sticking me with these 4F's.

01-12-11, 02:32 PM	#1
Vaux Torpedoman Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 116 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Real life periscope usage question. Were periscopes ever used on the surface as a sort of a "high watch" supplement to the guys with binoculars on the bridge? It seems that it would have significantly increased the observational range. As far as the game is concerned, does running on the surface with periscope extended increase your observational range? (Running SH4 1.5, TMO 2.0 with the Beta patch.)

01-13-11, 08:29 PM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,365 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	The actual term was "High Periscope Watch" __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-16-11, 04:49 AM	#10
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Just to clarify some things: -In SH4 1.4 and in 1.5 you actually have a maximum visible environment of 20km around your submarine -Earth curvature is simulated, and you will see masts and smoke over the horizon. But visual sensors are not affected by this, they will see a mast tip same as a full ship hull. However, sensors are tweaked to be affected by distance, so in the end the result is similar. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

01-12-11, 06:14 PM	#2
Takao Officer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 244 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	1. Yes, many skippers did this, since the raised periscope increased the maximum viewing distance(weather permitting). 2. AFAIK, no the "vanilla" game does not take this into account. The viewing distance is artificially limited to, IIRC, 9,000 meters or 12,000 meters. Although I think there was a mod that extended it out to 16,000 meters. Not sure how TMO or RFB handled it. For instances, US submarine skippers first inkling of a nearby ship was smoke on the horizon, which could often be seen a great distance(Japan still used a lot of coal burning ships) and well before the ship actually came into view. The game does not take this into account because you would probably need a supercomputer to run such a sim.

01-13-11, 01:27 PM	#4
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	It is a great mod, I've used it for awhile! But you still probrably can't see past the limits of the game rendering. In reality though, that black smoke would be visible from further away for sure.

01-13-11, 09:06 PM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I know the game map is basically flat, but often you just see the mast of ships on the horizon. Makes we wonder if a higher look you would see more of the ship from the same distance, or will ships just render this way regardless. Appears to me they render this way even with scope up on the surface, but I haven't really tested it, so I don't know if a higher scope even improves how much of the ship you see at the same distance as say the binocs.

01-16-11, 12:24 AM	#8
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Well, I can see the smoke long before the ship playing TMO RSRD, plus the smoke mod for merchant and warships.