Clear the Bridge! Dick O'kane method

commandosolo2009 · 01-10-11, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45_South

Greetings all,
I am trying to get my head around manual targeting and am currently reading Dick O'kanes' Clear the Bridge (very good read too by the way).

I started out using "the Dick O'kane' method as tutorialized (don't know if that's a real word but I'm going with it) by Rockin Robbins. I understand this method and have had some success with it - set up at 90 degrees to target track, offset aiming device 10, fire as desired points cross crosshairs etc etc.

However, every attack I read about in Dick O'kanes' book goes something like this (after the initial setup) "Constant bearing - mark!"
"Set!"
"Fire!" and the first torpedo went for her big stack aft. The next fish went for her middle, and the third forward.

What I don't understand is if he is firing as the target moves across his periscope crosshair, how does he shoot aft to fwd? This implies that he in fact does not hold his scope on a pre-determined bearing to fire but rather tracks with the target from aft to fwd?

I must be missing something basic here... calling Rockin Robbins to the bridge!
p.s. I tried to find the original Dick O'kane thread to post this to but failed miserably there also

Just a quick question, you refer to Richard O'kane? or Dick O'kane? cuz as far as I've learnt Rich is the USS Tang skipper, while Dick is a member on Subsim famous for the sonar tutorial and other work here. Maybe he's set salvo to Left side of the periscope? thats the most possible explanation, or maybe the camera was on the other side of the ship, that could be apparent visual error. Of course I maybe wrong..

ETR3(SS) · 01-10-11, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

Just a quick question, you refer to Richard O'kane? or Dick O'kane? cuz as far as I've learnt Rich is the USS Tang skipper, while Dick is a member on Subsim famous for the sonar tutorial and other work here. Maybe he's set salvo to Left side of the periscope? thats the most possible explanation, or maybe the camera was on the other side of the ship, that could be apparent visual error. Of course I maybe wrong..

Dick is a nickname for Richard, so they are the same man. Although the man is deceased and not aware of Subsim ever.

Rockin Robbins · 01-10-11, 02:54 PM

When aaroblood, gutted and myself cobbled together the procedure we were inspired by Morton and O'Kane's mastery of the TDC and their inventive use of it in their attack strategies. But they left no precise set of instructions because they hadn't thought there would be a bunch of crazy people (us) using a fancy computer simulator to model World War II submarines.

After aaronblood and gutted drummed the principles of a U-Boat attack into my feeble brain, it was my job to adapt that to the unique qualities of the Silent Hunter 4 American TDC, which I did. We had discussions about what name to use and finally decided to name it after a famous US sub skipper of the war. Since Dick O'Kane's genius was the inspiration and historical justification for using a constant bearing technique with an American submarine, we named the method after him. We have never claimed that this is an imitation of any attack that Dick O'Kane ever made. It is only named in honor of him.

Liberatus · 01-10-11, 03:31 PM

Pisces:

Could you describe will look like an attack on a ship from a distance of 3000 m, which moves at a speed of 10 knots and I'm set for the course at 90 degrees? Of course using the dick O'Kane method.Please. I'll be very grateful

. Sorry for my english

Pisces · 01-10-11, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberatus

Pisces:

Could you describe will look like an attack on a ship from a distance of 3000 m, which moves at a speed of 10 knots and I'm set for the course at 90 degrees? Of course using the dick O'Kane method.Please. I'll be very grateful

. Sorry for my english

I'm sorry, your message doesn't make much sense. From what I understand of it, it seems I already did just that. With an example ship of 95 yards length. If your ship happens to be 95 meters then it's the same.

Rockin Robbins · 01-10-11, 04:36 PM

Another thing that bears explanation is the reason that Dick O'Kane chose the stern/MOT/bow order of his spread instead of just shooting bow/MOT/stern as the target crossed the wire.

When you shoot bow/MOT/stern as I show in the Dick O'Kane tutorials, all three torpedoes follow the same track to the target, following in each other's wakes. This is called a longitudinal spread. There's nothing wrong with that, and it works well.

Until the target sees the torpedoes! Then a course change may allow him to avoid one of the torpedoes. Since they all follow the same path, avoiding one is avoiding them all.

This becomes critically important when firing from ahead of the target, as in the John P Comwell method. The easy fix for the target is to turn into the torpedoes and let them pass harmlessly to port. Try it in smooth water in the daytime. They'll avoid just about every time! You'll see the target turn into the torpedoes if they are approaching from forward of the bow and turn away if they approach from aft of the bow.

BUT if you instead shoot stern/MOT/bow, you're going to have to do some extra work. But that order results in the most divergent of torpedo paths. No longer do they follow each other in a straight line, but each takes its own path to the target and when shot in this order, stern/MOT/bow, their paths are separated to the maximum extent possible.

That means that avoiding one torpedo does not avoid the other two. The solution is MUCH more tolerant to possible reaction on the part of the target and your odds of a hit are much higher.

Using any method in smooth water during daylight it is critical that you shoot from such a range that the target cannot avoid your shots if they see the torpedoes approaching. That means that 1000 yards is the maximum I would attempt in those conditions, and my ideal would be 500 to 700 yards, just long enough for the torpedoes to arm. At that distance the target can gawk at the torpedoes and do anything he wants. He's dead meat.

commandosolo2009 · 01-11-11, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Dick is a nickname for Richard, so they are the same man. Although the man is deceased and not aware of Subsim ever.

My bad mate!!

01-10-11, 02:54 PM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	When aaroblood, gutted and myself cobbled together the procedure we were inspired by Morton and O'Kane's mastery of the TDC and their inventive use of it in their attack strategies. But they left no precise set of instructions because they hadn't thought there would be a bunch of crazy people (us) using a fancy computer simulator to model World War II submarines. After aaronblood and gutted drummed the principles of a U-Boat attack into my feeble brain, it was my job to adapt that to the unique qualities of the Silent Hunter 4 American TDC, which I did. We had discussions about what name to use and finally decided to name it after a famous US sub skipper of the war. Since Dick O'Kane's genius was the inspiration and historical justification for using a constant bearing technique with an American submarine, we named the method after him. We have never claimed that this is an imitation of any attack that Dick O'Kane ever made. It is only named in honor of him. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-10-11, 03:31 PM	#4
Liberatus Seaman Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31 Downloads: 218 Uploads: 0	Pisces: Could you describe will look like an attack on a ship from a distance of 3000 m, which moves at a speed of 10 knots and I'm set for the course at 90 degrees? Of course using the dick O'Kane method.Please. I'll be very grateful. Sorry for my english

01-10-11, 04:36 PM	#6
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Another thing that bears explanation is the reason that Dick O'Kane chose the stern/MOT/bow order of his spread instead of just shooting bow/MOT/stern as the target crossed the wire. When you shoot bow/MOT/stern as I show in the Dick O'Kane tutorials, all three torpedoes follow the same track to the target, following in each other's wakes. This is called a longitudinal spread. There's nothing wrong with that, and it works well. Until the target sees the torpedoes! Then a course change may allow him to avoid one of the torpedoes. Since they all follow the same path, avoiding one is avoiding them all. This becomes critically important when firing from ahead of the target, as in the John P Comwell method. The easy fix for the target is to turn into the torpedoes and let them pass harmlessly to port. Try it in smooth water in the daytime. They'll avoid just about every time! You'll see the target turn into the torpedoes if they are approaching from forward of the bow and turn away if they approach from aft of the bow. BUT if you instead shoot stern/MOT/bow, you're going to have to do some extra work. But that order results in the most divergent of torpedo paths. No longer do they follow each other in a straight line, but each takes its own path to the target and when shot in this order, stern/MOT/bow, their paths are separated to the maximum extent possible. That means that avoiding one torpedo does not avoid the other two. The solution is MUCH more tolerant to possible reaction on the part of the target and your odds of a hit are much higher. Using any method in smooth water during daylight it is critical that you shoot from such a range that the target cannot avoid your shots if they see the torpedoes approaching. That means that 1000 yards is the maximum I would attempt in those conditions, and my ideal would be 500 to 700 yards, just long enough for the torpedoes to arm. At that distance the target can gawk at the torpedoes and do anything he wants. He's dead meat. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS