Arizona Congresswoman Shot in the Head at Public Event

[GoldenRivet]

there is a time when armed insurrection is the only option.

we've not reached that point in America by a long shot.

I don't think that this morons attempt on the representative's life was meant to be some sort of violent overthrow attempt... he is simply a nut.

i dont think that anyone has made a remark which supports this violence - or any violence for that matter.

I do think that Armistead makes a valid point though about the government being careful... threats of violence are 15 times higher than they have historically been, and there have been direct connections drawn between the moment there was an increase in threats and vandalism and the moment this health care bill became a major player.

surely to the God that democrats don't believe in - that fact alone sends congress a message.

another question:

is it truly an "elected government" when you are forced to vote for the candidate which will screw you most gently?

i dont remember ever once in my life voting FOR someone... only AGAINST someone else.

[Armistead]

My point exactly. Government has always been corrupt to a degree. They even have detailed plans to protect who in case of total economic collapse...themselves. Since about the 60's politics changed, sure always heated, but politicians fought each other over the will of the people, today they serve special interest.

What happened to Gabby and those others shot is a crime of the worse kind. She actually seems to be someone half way decent trying to make change,.

I honestly don't think this nation could in fact have a revolution, even armed that could change things because we're such a melting pot of different idea's and people, but could we fall into a nation of chaos...we'd be fools to think it wouldn't happen. If that happens people will rightfully blame the government.

We do have many groups that would love to invade and toss out congress by force. These groups are growing by leaps. Heck, thousands of Americans die every year basically serving the greed of government. Heck, I would say our government is more crooked than the King we fought against to become a nation.

Our only future hope is elected officials change...but each cycle they become more partisan, more divided and use stronger language and wonder why these things happen. Maybe not so much this nut case, but death threats have increased 300% to government officials. They create such a climate of hate and partisanship to serve greed, well, you'd better expect these results. They can't act the way they do and serve special interest and then tell everyone else to love one another, pray and get along.


I pray I never see the day it all comes down to people shooting each other why government officials hide behind steel walls eating ribeyes and drinking fine wine. Most fail to see just one major event could place us there.


It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

[Skybird]

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

[gimpy117]

it is a scary thought skybird. guns are even being incorporated into political events. That scares me a little bit.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

I can see your point, but I disagree. I think our system is designed very well to allow for heated and outright nasty discourse while keeping such events too far beyond the pale to be ordinary. Maybe it's simply because I'm old enough to remember far worse, but I think that modern media has the ability to magnify and personalize tragedy that we begin to look more deeply for its causes, and start to see things that aren't there.

[breadcatcher101]

No surprise there, Skybird.

Almost all of us, although many are armed, have no intent to inflict such carnage.

I for one am armed for defensive purposes only, not against the goverment but against the criminal elements we have here. My wife and family all know how to handle firearms myself ever since I was age 10.

We all target shoot for enjoyment, some of us hunt, and all are armed just in case you have a home invasion.

Being from the South, this act we speak of, trying to kill an unarmed woman who meant you no harm is unspeakable to us.

In the old days in these parts he would have been hanged and remembered as a coward for his deeds.

Today he will probably never be executed but kept locked up why others ponder his actions and wonder why.

[Radtgaeb]

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

No surprise there, Skybird.

Almost all of us, although many are armed, have no intent to inflict such carnage.

I for one am armed for defensive purposes only, not against the goverment but against the criminal elements we have here. My wife and family all know how to handle firearms myself ever since I was age 10.

We all target shoot for enjoyment, some of us hunt, and all are armed just in case you have a home invasion.

Being from the South, this act we speak of, trying to kill an unarmed woman who meant you no harm is unspeakable to us.

In the old days in these parts he would have been hanged and remembered as a coward for his deeds.

Today he will probably never be executed but kept locked up why others ponder his actions and wonder why.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

Yes I have to say its quite astounding.
The US political discourse is very radicalized much more so than european ones, and yet homegrown terrorism, political terrorism as we have know in europe is extraordinarly rare. Maybe that will change as the US continues its way to a 2 way society, and a society were the concept of the american dream is all but dead. Some months they were talking about this on NPR. Very fascinating stuff, and to a certain extent its actually quite sad.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

US politics is no more vitriolic now than it has ever been, and the availability of firearms is LESS than ever before in US history. Particularly "state of the art" military weapons. In the Adams Administration citizens could—and did—own every single item in the US military's possession. Even warships. Laws restricting even machine guns are very modern.

The lack of political violence in the US is in fact the norm, even with more weapons and bile floating around. Heck, Washington had the Whiskey Rebellion.

Bottom line is that 200 years of US political history demonstrates you are wrong. Violence sometimes happens, but more often than not it's by kooks, not some sort of definable political movement. And the kooks are roughly evenly divided in the spectrum (left slightly more than right, actually, on assassination attempts, least for executives and candidates). The assumption or thought that things now are worse, better, whatever than the past is frequently heard, but has no basis in fact. It's like polls to name the best presidents, "modern" guys always score as more important than they deserve.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by tater

US politics is no more vitriolic now than it has ever been, and the availability of firearms is LESS than ever before in US history. Particularly "state of the art" military weapons. In the Adams Administration citizens could—and did—own every single item in the US military's possession. Even warships. Laws restricting even machine guns are very modern.

The lack of political violence in the US is in fact the norm, even with more weapons and bile floating around. Heck, Washington had the Whiskey Rebellion.

Bottom line is that 200 years of US political history demonstrates you are wrong. Violence sometimes happens, but more often than not it's by kooks, not some sort of definable political movement. And the kooks are roughly evenly divided in the spectrum (left slightly more than right, actually, on assassination attempts, least for executives and candidates). The assumption or thought that things now are worse, better, whatever than the past is frequently heard, but has no basis in fact. It's like polls to name the best presidents, "modern" guys always score as more important than they deserve.

In the past violence was used for a resolve, moreso as we struggled to become a nation as one to the 1900's. Certainly there were other times, prohibition started the gangster and mafia movements to a point of almost equal power to the government and people protected these folks as they saw the government infringe on our rights.

During the depression robbers and crooks were often seen as hero's, fighting the mean banks.

But overall few people had the military weapons you spoke of. Back then people seldom got violent to the other. Americans for the most part were of same mind and values...you know, the day when your kids could walk to school 5 miles and a parent not worry about it. Now our population has more than doubled and we face complex issues.

The fact is our past certainly shows we are capable of turning violent again. Overall, we are more in debt than we've ever been at a time the world is most dangerous. Once we went off the gold standard it went to hell.

We only look at out past to realize we could become that way in the future, but with our popualtion it could lead to chaos....as many nations are now finding out.

Course, I'm sure they're some GOP members that would feel another world war would solve everything.

[gimpy117]

well like Mr.Moore or not I though bowling for columbine was a very interesting video on the fact of gun violence in america.

[AVGWarhawk]

IMO the young man who did this tragic act is no different then this lunatic here:



John Hinkley JR. Loner, loser and got nothing to lose. Did his best to impress Jody Foster. How best to gain attention from a world were no one pays attention to you? Pull out the hardware and start blasting. Let me guess...both of these guys were reaching out for help... There is more to this kids story then what we know. It will come out eventually.


For now, my sincere condolences to the families involved and specifically the family of the 9 year old girl who was....'just interested in government/politics and was asked to go."