Critical map bug (using ruler map tool)

TheDarkWraith · 12-13-10, 11:31 PM

I was working on adding super marks and user placed navigation markers for real navigation when I discovered that where I clicked on the screen wasn't matching what should be the equivalent distance in meters. So I ran a little test. I set the game screen resolution to 1024 X 768. Ran the game. Went to both maps and using the scale located in the bottom left of each map I took my ruler tool and measured that reference distance. Result: didn't even come close

So I changed screen resolutions to different screen resolutions and did the same tests. Result: different readings for each different screen resolution

So what does this mean? The maps are bugged and using the ruler tool gives erroneous readings for the distance based on screen resolution.
How in the world did this ever pass QA? This is worse than the mast height problem

The mast height problem was fixable but I don't see any way to fix this one

Anyone have any ideas?

Someone do the same tests as I did and see if you don't come up with different readings for the reference scale based on screen resolution.

stoppro · 12-13-10, 11:51 PM

yes I Noticed this a while back I play at 1920 x1200 like you do. the scales are way off I got used to it and ajusted my attacks. but not before i ran right into a dd or too close to use torpedos. I can work around it but I don't play at 100 percent yet.I can see where it would be a real pia if you are at 100 percent realism. It gets worse when you zoom the tai map in or out

Zedi · 12-14-10, 03:04 AM

The scaling is wrong all over in the game. I realized that when I was working on ERM and measured the whole fleet. I was kinda shocked to see that a tanker is shorter than a cargo ship, at least in the ship .cfg file. I stopped using the navmap when I was getting very wrong values on the 4 bearing method using the tools provided by the game. Since then, I use real papers and pencils and a very personal way to approach my targets.

SH5 is a mess already, gathering all the bugs from the previous versions. If there will be any new version, that need to be built from the scratch.

PL_Andrev · 12-14-10, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I don't see any way to fix this one

Anyone have any ideas?

I'm not sure I understand this problem correctly...

To fix them:
1) Read the current game resolution
2) Put the correction variables depend from current resolution.

But... could you insert the more precise description with screens?

Vanilla · 12-14-10, 07:31 AM

As I get it - what TDW is saying is that the map is squeezed or stretched depending on the resolution and tools aren't. That means that for example on 1024x768 4:3 on certain map zoom level you will get 4km of actual in-game distance while measuring vertically and on another screen say on 1280x720 16:9 on another zoom level you'll get 5km vertically and 3km horizontaly with the same ruler because the map is squeezed and stretched while the tool remains the same size. And, oh my, on the ruler you will always see the same 3.8km. So you don't actually measure anything, but you think that you do, because the ruler does not show the actual in-game distance but rather some quasi-random number.

To aggravate things further while one can introduce certain coefficients for vertical or horizontal measurment on the map if you place the in-game ruler at some other arbitrary angle (not vertically or horizontally) you will need to use some sine or cosine law to determine correct length. And that's not all - with changing zoom level (remember that at the moment there is no 'indicator' for zoom level of the map) you will need new coefficients even if the screen resolution remains the same.

More than that - imagine that somebody had somehow modded in the coefficients so the above mentioned calculation is done automatically, but then a new problem would arise - when you were pivoting your ruler, holding it at one end, then the game should either automatically resize the ruler (simultaneously moving the holding point, that is mouse X and Y coords) or change the range written on it. Even if it was done, and I guess it is not all that easy, then you would still have a problem of 'erratic ruler' with some not so easily understood by a ordinary captain behaviour while pivoting it.

The only solution is to, somehow, force the map not to re-size with the screen res always having a fixed size as do the map tools. But I guess it requires complete rehaul of the map engine through hex-editing. Or?

BTW, if all of the above is true, then when you plot everything by hand, not using ship icons or shores given on the map, you won't notice the problem - it is the same as drawing it on paper.

So 100% realism only! But this bug is a major killer for all the mods that would automatically place something on the map.

Trevally. · 12-14-10, 04:07 PM

When I did harbour pilot, I had to map harbours and plot waypoints.
To do this I had the Nav officer call coordinates for each one.
No problems.

The problem I did have was measuring distances. Turns for waypints were either 50m or 100m from the called point. Knowing how big this really was on the map was apita

BigBANGtheory · 12-14-10, 05:53 PM

I took Trevally's TDC practice map, paused it and measured the distance nose to nose from sub to target (by zooming in and out) at a screen res of 1920x1080 and then at 1024x768.

I measured them both at 6900m with the ruler which should be repeatable by others.

When I used the ruler to check the scale indicator on the bottom left I found it to be way out, worse at 1920x1080.

Reece · 12-14-10, 08:20 PM

Are the measurements correct for 1024x768?

Vanilla · 12-15-10, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBANGtheory

I took Trevally's TDC practice map, paused it and measured the distance nose to nose from sub to target (by zooming in and out) at a screen res of 1920x1080 and then at 1024x768.

I measured them both at 6900m with the ruler which should be repeatable by others.

When I used the ruler to check the scale indicator on the bottom left I found it to be way out, worse at 1920x1080.

Great news! At least the ship and other marks are correct and only scale indicator is wrong. I guess it means that the marks are placed correctly but the map is still distorted so the only problem is land. Must check...

12-13-10, 11:31 PM	#1
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	Critical map bug (using ruler map tool) I was working on adding super marks and user placed navigation markers for real navigation when I discovered that where I clicked on the screen wasn't matching what should be the equivalent distance in meters. So I ran a little test. I set the game screen resolution to 1024 X 768. Ran the game. Went to both maps and using the scale located in the bottom left of each map I took my ruler tool and measured that reference distance. Result: didn't even come close So I changed screen resolutions to different screen resolutions and did the same tests. Result: different readings for each different screen resolution So what does this mean? The maps are bugged and using the ruler tool gives erroneous readings for the distance based on screen resolution. How in the world did this ever pass QA? This is worse than the mast height problem The mast height problem was fixable but I don't see any way to fix this one Anyone have any ideas? Someone do the same tests as I did and see if you don't come up with different readings for the reference scale based on screen resolution.

12-13-10, 11:51 PM	#2
stoppro Sonar Guy Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: vero beach fl Posts: 380 Downloads: 495 Uploads: 0	yes I Noticed this a while back I play at 1920 x1200 like you do. the scales are way off I got used to it and ajusted my attacks. but not before i ran right into a dd or too close to use torpedos. I can work around it but I don't play at 100 percent yet.I can see where it would be a real pia if you are at 100 percent realism. It gets worse when you zoom the tai map in or out __________________ win 10 64-msi-32gig cosair ddr4-ryzen9-5600evga gtx3060-corsair850watt-2-ssd 500 gig drives 1m2 1tig

12-14-10, 07:31 AM	#5
Vanilla Lieutenant Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St. Petersburg, Russia Posts: 264 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	As I get it - what TDW is saying is that the map is squeezed or stretched depending on the resolution and tools aren't. That means that for example on 1024x768 4:3 on certain map zoom level you will get 4km of actual in-game distance while measuring vertically and on another screen say on 1280x720 16:9 on another zoom level you'll get 5km vertically and 3km horizontaly with the same ruler because the map is squeezed and stretched while the tool remains the same size. And, oh my, on the ruler you will always see the same 3.8km. So you don't actually measure anything, but you think that you do, because the ruler does not show the actual in-game distance but rather some quasi-random number. To aggravate things further while one can introduce certain coefficients for vertical or horizontal measurment on the map if you place the in-game ruler at some other arbitrary angle (not vertically or horizontally) you will need to use some sine or cosine law to determine correct length. And that's not all - with changing zoom level (remember that at the moment there is no 'indicator' for zoom level of the map) you will need new coefficients even if the screen resolution remains the same. More than that - imagine that somebody had somehow modded in the coefficients so the above mentioned calculation is done automatically, but then a new problem would arise - when you were pivoting your ruler, holding it at one end, then the game should either automatically resize the ruler (simultaneously moving the holding point, that is mouse X and Y coords) or change the range written on it. Even if it was done, and I guess it is not all that easy, then you would still have a problem of 'erratic ruler' with some not so easily understood by a ordinary captain behaviour while pivoting it. The only solution is to, somehow, force the map not to re-size with the screen res always having a fixed size as do the map tools. But I guess it requires complete rehaul of the map engine through hex-editing. Or? BTW, if all of the above is true, then when you plot everything by hand, not using ship icons or shores given on the map, you won't notice the problem - it is the same as drawing it on paper. So 100% realism only! But this bug is a major killer for all the mods that would automatically place something on the map. Last edited by Vanilla; 12-14-10 at 07:43 AM.

12-14-10, 04:07 PM	#6
Trevally. Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: AN1536 (Orkney) Posts: 5,451 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 28	When I did harbour pilot, I had to map harbours and plot waypoints. To do this I had the Nav officer call coordinates for each one. No problems. The problem I did have was measuring distances. Turns for waypints were either 50m or 100m from the called point. Knowing how big this really was on the map was apita __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Trevally Mods for SH5

12-14-10, 08:20 PM	#8
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,723 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Are the measurements correct for 1024x768? __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

12-14-10, 03:04 AM	#3
Zedi Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,845 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 2	The scaling is wrong all over in the game. I realized that when I was working on ERM and measured the whole fleet. I was kinda shocked to see that a tanker is shorter than a cargo ship, at least in the ship .cfg file. I stopped using the navmap when I was getting very wrong values on the 4 bearing method using the tools provided by the game. Since then, I use real papers and pencils and a very personal way to approach my targets. SH5 is a mess already, gathering all the bugs from the previous versions. If there will be any new version, that need to be built from the scratch.

12-14-10, 05:53 PM	#7
BigBANGtheory Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: British Waters Posts: 243 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	I took Trevally's TDC practice map, paused it and measured the distance nose to nose from sub to target (by zooming in and out) at a screen res of 1920x1080 and then at 1024x768. I measured them both at 6900m with the ruler which should be repeatable by others. When I used the ruler to check the scale indicator on the bottom left I found it to be way out, worse at 1920x1080.