Diminished Reality

[Skybird]

Diminished Reality - German software engineers now were successful in manipulating live videos so that during live transmission of the moving pictures objects could be erased from the video.

I imagine the potential for abuse, and manipulation of information, news, and "live-coverage". The possibilities for live censorship without the audience realising it, are endless. Currently, so say Wolfgang Broll and Jan Herling of the university of Ilmenau who pionerred and acchieved the breakthrough, manipulations like this could be proven in according videos and life-streams. But in two years, they estimate, the technology will be so perfect that the manipulation can no longer been shown.

Philip K. Dick, anyone...?

http://bundes.blog.de/2010/10/19/mad...tzeit-9678697/

We should make a mental note that from now on, such manipulation is possible. In other words: where in the past years we have learned not to trust the media showing photography and video records, we now need to always keep in mind that we even cannot trust live coverage anymore.

What this technology is able to do in the hands of current corrupt political establishments and lobby politics, is a nightmare, imo.

German news article

[August]

Anyone who ever watched the movie "The Sting" knows that "live" broadcasts could be manipulated long before this...

[the_tyrant]

The Chinese TV stations have been doing this for years
live is not live, its 5 minutes behind, so they can cut stuff out if they want

[Rockstar]

A great job so far of dividing a population into two extreme groups with great rhetoric (logos, pathos & ethos). Now to seal the coffin with 'official' video feeds a new selling point to gather audiences in addition to being fair and balanced! Is it live or is it memorex? Never mind facts, no matter who shows it, we'll be busy arguing amongst ourselves again this time trying to prove a videos authenticity.

Meanwhile a select few will enjoy their jet set lifestyle and meetings in tropical settings.

The cynic

[Oberon]

Reminds me of when the Czech weather panorama got hacked and this was played:



But yeah, expect this to be abused in all kinds of merry ways before long.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

The Chinese TV stations have been doing this for years
live is not live, its 5 minutes behind, so they can cut stuff out if they want

"5 Minutes behind", means it is delayed, edited, then broadcasted. It is not "live".

And No, August, this has not been done "since years" - not in real time.

This now means live in almost real time. In a German essay on the two experts and their breakthrough, the calculation time to process the video images and broadcast them is mentioned to be 40 milliseconds. Granted, that is also a delayed broadcast, but it is not delayed by minutes or seconds, but just 40 ms.

Als Brolls Mitarbeiter Jan Herling diese Software kürzlich bei einem internationalen Symposium in Seoul vorstellte, war das Publikum nach seinen Worten erstaunt und zugleich skeptisch. „Es gibt weltweit nur eine Hand voll Experten für diese Technik, aber selbst für sie war es vollkommen neu und bis dato nicht vorstellbar“, sagt Diplom-Informatiker Herling.

When Broll's assistant Jan Herling demonstrated the software short time ago at a symposium in Seoul, the audience was amazed and sceptical. "Worldwide, there is only a small handful of experts for this technology, but even for them this was completely new and so far unimaginable", says Diplom-Informatiker Herling.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

"5 Minutes behind", means it is delayed, edited, then broadcasted. It is not "live".

And No, August, this has not been done "since years" - not in real time.

This now means live in almost real time. In a German essay on the two experts and their breakthrough, the calculation time to process the video images and broadcast them is mentioned to be 40 milliseconds. Granted, that is also a delayed broadcast, but it is not delayed by minutes or seconds, but just 40 ms.

My point was how does an audience ever know for sure that a broadcast is in real time? I mean aside from the broadcasters claims of "live coverage", unless we happen to see a clock or something similar in the background we have no real ability to tell whether any footage "is live or is it Memorex".

[Penguin]

Due to various technical reasons live is never really live. The delay untill the broadcast reaches the tv audience takes roughly 2-several seconds, depending on the transmission, production environment, yada,yada,yada. Live broadcasts in the US have some seconds extra delay to beep out bad language - thanks to the FCC. Countries with more censorship put in some more extra delay. The GDR had for example 2 minutes delay when they transmitted Gorbatchevs visit to west germany.

40 ms is exactly one frame when we talk about 25fps. It can't become any faster, as you at least need one source image first which you want to manipulate. However be assured, broadcast priofessionals can see when a frame is skipped.
While the news is exiting for me as a video nerd, (nearly) live manipulation is possible since several decades. Just think about an overlay which you blend into the picture, the station logo being the most obvious one. If you give me some seconds and a static camera I can put in a dinosaur next to Angela Merkel that looks real - a fake looking one just takes one click
When the americans would have been prepared at the superbowl broadcast some years ago, they could easily put in a blur to prevent the nipplegate-scandal which turned several people blind

[Skybird]

I have digital cable TV. Before, I had regular (analogue) cable which did not need a set-top-box.

When I now compare my clocks (radio-controlled and thus: precise) with the TV clock before the 20:00 news, for example, I realise that digital cable TV transmits the signals with a delay of around 2 seconds. It lags behind. All programs I compare with analogue cable, lag behind by 2 seconds. With analogue cable and in the past: radiowave-transmitted TV, there was no such delay. Until today I can demonstrate that difference between digital and analogue cable.

I would not be able to notice it with a delay of not 2 seconds but just 40 ms.

The two experts say that they estimate that in 2 years, graphical artifacts that c urrently are if not visible at least can be shown by graphical analyxsis to be existent, will be gone - means they will be so minor then that manipulated images no longer can be shown by analysis to have been manipulated at all. Together with that manipulation being done in almost real time, the possibility for deforming visual reality, chnaged "live" evidence of any kind, and censorship, are almost perfect, and total.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Due to various technical reasons live is never really live. The delay untill the broadcast reaches the tv audience takes roughly 2-several seconds, depending on the transmission, production environment, yada,yada,yada. Live broadcasts in the US have some seconds extra delay to beep out bad language - thanks to the FCC. Countries with more censorship put in some more extra delay. The GDR had for example 2 minutes delay when they transmitted Gorbatchevs visit to west germany.

40 ms is exactly one frame when we talk about 25fps. It can't become any faster, as you at least need one source image first which you want to manipulate. However be assured, broadcast priofessionals can see when a frame is skipped.
While the news is exiting for me as a video nerd, (nearly) live manipulation is possible since several decades. Just think about an overlay which you blend into the picture, the station logo being the most obvious one. If you give me some seconds and a static camera I can put in a dinosaur next to Angela Merkel that looks real - a fake looking one just takes one click
When the americans would have been prepared at the superbowl broadcast some years ago, they could easily put in a blur to prevent the nipplegate-scandal which turned several people blind

The trick, and danger, is to manipulate the media stream without the audience knowing it, being aware of it, or being able to prove that manipulation takes place. To compoare what they do now with that dinosaur is like comparing Ray Harryhousen's wax-monsters and stop-motion technique with Lucasfilm's fully digital production of the last Star Wars movie.

[Penguin]

Well as the target audience you're alwas ****ed!
That's why for example in news broadcasts the host often says that the interview was pre-recorded. Or when we see politians making a statement with the Reichtag in the background: mostly they are in a windowless studio in front of a green-/bluebox.
In the example picture from the article, the one with the desktop, you can see that the background is rather plain, this is an easy manipulation. I would really want to see a moving image with a background that is also non-static, then I would be really amazed. But anyway, I believe that software doing this manipulation on their own does a rather quick and dirty job, with the right tools you can see that there is something missing or copied in - again I am not talking about the audience.

I am manipulating (editing) moving pictures of puking people right now. I love my job, especially when I drank last night

[Penguin]

one more thing: take a look at 0:35 in the video of the first linek, when the shadow of the camera guy hits the desk, you'll be able to see the missing thing. That's the problem which occurs in changing environment/changing luminance
But really, I don't want to put the invention of these guys down, it's pretty impressive, but the whole maipulation thing is, as the Krauts say: "An old hat"

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by August

Anyone who ever watched the movie "The Sting" knows that "live" broadcasts could be manipulated long before this...

... or has watched "Speed".

[Skybird]

Penguin,

you can see a light shadow at the edited part of the video, almost all time. It still is not perfect, and the team admit it themselves, however, it is a breakthrough to acchieve such manipulation not after seconds and minutes of editing, but in almost real time. The two guys say themselves that it needs another 2 years to be perfected. And then I doubt you see there any shadow anymore where a deleted object has been.

The news is not that videos get manipulated. And the news is not green boxes or blue boxes, and copying a video stream into a neutral background. The news is that any existing video pictures can be edited live, in almost real time, within the same split of a second they get recorded and broadcasted.

You already edit the visual reality the very same split of a second you film and transmit it - no noticable time delay.

[the_tyrant]

Guys i have a question
In the book Angels and Demons, it was said that almost no tv station does real "live" broadcast anymore. The book says that its all just a reporter in front of a screen in the studio with fake wind and rain. Is it true?