I'm not sure I ever made an introduction yet.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Platapus

That reminds me of a conversation The Frau and I had with her daughter who was in highschool at the time.

Every year, in Virginia, the topic of school uniforms comes up. Her daughter was absolutely against it. Wearing a uniform would stifle her individuality.

I told her that she currently wears a school uniform.

"No I don't!!"

Yes, you do. You wear exactly what your peer group wears and nothing else. The colour, style and brand name must match what all your friends wear. When you peer group changes how they dress, you follow theirs lead and change also. Where is the individuality when you wear only what your peer group wants you to wear?

She then tried to explain that they are all acting as individuals.... together.

It's not necessarily about "individuality" per se, but more about connecting yourself to a certain group, as you say. However, your daughter is also right in that a group as a whole can often want to be "individual": independent and clearly distinguishable.
Me myself, I'm a metalhead. Metalheads have a pretty distinct culture, with different clothing, hair and even behaviour codes. Being forced to wear a uniform would severely limit the possibility for me to affirm my membership to this group.


BTW, what is the advantage of school uniforms? I can't think of any.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

BTW, what is the advantage of school uniforms? I can't think of any.

So everybody is equal, nobody gets picked on (in school) for not having the latest trainers (sneakers to the merry-cans ) or clothes. It doesn't always work but it's a good starter.

My wife is a teacher at my old school, where uniform didn't really get a look in after your first year - now they all have exactly the same, there is a fund for the less well-off kids (most of them, it's a very deprived area!). Aside from the uniform the school has returned to a house-system with hard fought competitions. Because of these two things, and a few smaller adjustments, the school now has a waiting list where just five years ago it was very much not a popular school to be at!

Pupils are allowed to be individuals - for the 75% of the week they're not in school, plus the 14/15 weeks holiday they get per year. Kids need discipline and structure and uniform is just one part of that.




Oh, look at me being all serious for a change!

There are no real advantages to having a school uniform. Those who think "it will put an end to bullying" are just naive. What do you think that just because your high school has a uniform everyone loves each other and nobody will ever say or do anything that is inappropriate?

edit
Would you rather have someone say "your shirt is so 2009, get with the times" or "you're a ****ing faggot who..." and say things that are actually hurtful and cause you serious emotional distress and possibly depression (and along with it more teen suicides)? Thank god school uniforms aren't used in America (except in some private schools).

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Solace

There are no real advantages to having a school uniform. Those who think "it will put an end to bullying" are just naive. What do you think that just because your high school has a uniform everyone loves each other and nobody will ever say or do anything that is inappropriate?

Nobody claimed it would put an end to bullying. That's a strawman argument. It removes clothes as status symbols and a basis for bullying in an environment where distractions like who's wearing what should be minimized. You're there to learn, not to take part in a fashion show.

There are no disadvantages to requiring uniforms.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Nobody claimed it would put an end to bullying. That's a strawman argument. It removes clothes as status symbols and a basis for bullying in an environment where distractions like who's wearing what should be minimized. You're there to learn, not to take part in a fashion show.

There are no disadvantages to requiring uniforms.

High school isn't really about learning. It's about:
-Discovering who you are and what you want to do with your life after high school.
-Chillin with friends.
-Dating.
-Sports (if you're a jock).
-Sex.
-Learning about society.


Sure, mathematics may be useful to an extent, but they teach one-sided versions of history and most of their science information is totally outdated. Did you know they still teach that there are only 9 primary objects in the solar system? What the ****? I mean there are 8 known planets and 5 known dwarf planets, with several other dwarf planets which are unconfirmed but the evidence supports they exist. Half the stuff they teach in both social and physical science classes is either biased or wrong.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Solace

High school isn't really about learning. It's about:
-Discovering who you are and what you want to do with your life after high school.
-Chillin with friends.
-Dating.
-Sports (if you're a jock).
-Sex.
-Learning about society.

Wow. Your priorities are completely screwy.

Originally Posted by Solace

Nobody would agree to use school uniforms in the USA. It would be unenforced and everyone would just do what they have been doing.

What about the numerous school districts that already require them?

In 2007–08, about 18 percent of public school principals reported that their school required students to wear uniforms. In 1999–2000, the percentage of principals who reported that their school required students to wear uniforms was 12 percent.

Also, in 2007–08, approximately 55 percent of public school principals reported that their school enforced a strict dress code, an increase from 47 percent in 1999-2000.

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2009). Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2009 (NCES 2010-012), Table 20.1.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Wow. Your priorities are completely screwy.



What about the numerous school districts that already require them?

There's only like 1 and that's in Illinois. There are several reason 99% of all schools don't have them.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Wow. Your priorities are completely screwy.



What about the numerous school districts that already require them?

Dress codes are different, but those actually make some sense to prevent teens from coming to school almost naked.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Nobody claimed it would put an end to bullying. That's a strawman argument. It removes clothes as status symbols and a basis for bullying in an environment where distractions like who's wearing what should be minimized. You're there to learn, not to take part in a fashion show.

There are no disadvantages to requiring uniforms.

Nobody would agree to use school uniforms in the USA. It would be unenforced and everyone would just do what they have been doing.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

BTW, what is the advantage of school uniforms? I can't think of any.

They make it much harder for kids to use clothes as status symbols for the purposes of excluding, bullying, ridiculing other kids who don't wear the preferred styles, brand names, etc. They remove "what everybody else is wearing" as a subject of focus and concern and encourage kids to come up with other, more clever ways of expressing their individuality (which, if they wish, they can still do via clothing when they are "off the clock" anyway).

They can save parents a great deal of time, money, and hassle, since buying school clothes becomes a relatively simple matter and one that is less likely to be accompanied by sounds of whining, begging, sulking, and adolescent threats of "If I can't have [x] I'll just die!"

From an adult point of view, where I work I didn't have to wear a "medical office" uniform when I started since I'm not a member of the medical staff. A few years into it they brought up the idea of having all the staff dress to the same standard and offered to purchase the first set of approved clothing for us.

I was dead set against it, not for "individuality" reasons but because when I took the job I'd spent a good bit of my own money buying the appropriate "business casual" wardrobe that was required at the time, which I would have no use for if I didn't wear it to work.

The majority wanted the uniforms, though, and that's what we went with. It wasn't long before I came around and I wouldn't go back now if I could. Putting together an outfit five mornings a week no longer requires the kind of thought and planning that it used to and instead of making a weekly trip to the drycleaners, everything I wear to work now goes in the washer/dryer with the rest of my stuff. Over the long run it has saved me a lot of time, energy, and money. Even if I buy my own uniforms to supplement what my employer provided, it's still much cheaper than keeping a business casual wardrobe together.