Way to go republicans, way to go. - Page 2

Sailor Steve · 12-01-10, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

they only want to raise it on the top of the public...the normal citizen won't be effected

The normal citizen is always affected by anything the government does.

Quote:

It's also funny how a whole party in congress can be so caught up with getting power, that they'll block EVERY bill at the american people's expense.

That argument is true of 'your' side as well. My point is that you are so one-sided that you are blind to any real discussion. This leaves you blaming the other 'party' when in fact people choose parties to run for because that's the only way to get elected. No party is composed of all one or all the other, but you refuse to see that, so you play the partisan game and make no progress at all. It's always "their" fault.

yubba · 12-01-10, 01:38 PM

So they decided to put a wage freeze on federal workers that's a start, they should also cut their pay about 10% except for the grunts, if private citizens have too suffer, the government workers can make a few sacrafieses. Learn more about what they want the FDIC too do, more Billions spent, more government waste, more government.

GoldenRivet · 12-01-10, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

So they decided to put a wage freeze on federal workers that's a start, they should also cut their pay about 10% except for the grunts, if private citizens have too suffer, the government workers can make a few sacrafieses. Learn more about what they want the FDIC too do, more Billions spent, more government waste, more government.

I'm on board with that.

Sailor Steve · 12-01-10, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I'm on board with that.

As am I, but I think they should cut the pay of elected Federal officials by at least 50%. They seem to have forgotten the concept of "public service".

The rank and file Federal workers? They're just doing a job they applied and got hired for. I think they're overpaid, and I think there are also way too many of them, but they didn't campaign to the public so they could "serve".

GoldenRivet · 12-01-10, 01:44 PM

Its the federal governments responsibility to promote the general welfare... not provide it.

they need to do away with that welfare BS right away too.

fact is there are probably a hundred things that could be done away with

Torvald Von Mansee · 12-01-10, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

and all the congressional action in the world wont make two turds in a bucket if our nation is completely and totally flat broke.

So...make sure the wealthy get a tax cut?

Torvald Von Mansee · 12-01-10, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

So they decided to put a wage freeze on federal workers that's a start, they should also cut their pay about 10% except for the grunts, if private citizens have too suffer, the government workers can make a few sacrafieses. Learn more about what they want the FDIC too do, more Billions spent, more government waste, more government.

Were you aware that many federal workers already get paid less than their private sector counterparts?

No, of course not.

Torvald Von Mansee · 12-01-10, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Its the federal governments responsibility to promote the general welfare... not provide it.

Right...so eliminate the Estate Tax, and cut taxes for the wealthiest 1%

Do you know what "general" means?

Sailor Steve · 12-01-10, 02:08 PM

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America."
-James Madson, on a bill to subsidize cod fishermen, 1789

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
-James Madison, 1794

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."
-Thomas Jefferson, 1798

"As a matter of fact and law, the governing rights of the States are all of those which have not been surrendered to the National Government by the Constitution or its amendments. Wisely or unwisely, people know that under the Eighteenth Amendment Congress has been given the right to legislate on this particular subject (prohibition), but this is not the case in the matter of a great number of other vital problems of government, such as the conduct of public utilities, of banks, of insurance, of business, of agriculture, of education, of social welfare and of a dozen other important features. In these, Washington must not be encouraged to interfere."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1930

Funny how quickly he went back on that part about "not...social welfare".

Personally, I believe that welfare is a good idea, but at the State level. The Federal Government was created to arbitrate disputes between the states and to Represent the country as a whole to the rest of the world, and I believe that its powers should be limited to that and no more.

Sailor Steve · 12-01-10, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Right...so eliminate the Estate Tax, and cut taxes for the wealthiest 1%

Do you know what "general" means?

It doesn't mean what you think it does. The founders considered that to be "special" welfare. General Welfare refers to the welfare of the country as a unit. As I showed in my last post, they believed that congress had no power to fund anything private, including the poor.

AVGWarhawk · 12-01-10, 02:11 PM

Quote:

They seem to have forgotten the concept of "public service".

Never a truer statement!

mookiemookie · 12-01-10, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Guess where the jobs for the uber middle class come from?

DING DING DING DING

the Uber rich!

There is absolutely zero evidence that cutting taxes on the rich does anything to stimulate jobs or economic growth. Zero. None.

AVGWarhawk · 12-01-10, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

There is absolutely zero evidence that cutting taxes on the rich does anything to stimulate jobs or economic growth. Zero. None.

Is there evidence that taxing them more helps? Keep taxing them. Why bother to improve yourself financially only to be raped of it in the end?

Sailor Steve · 12-01-10, 02:37 PM

"Tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more..."

Just a song, but after that, then what?

mookiemookie · 12-01-10, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Is there evidence that taxing them more helps? Keep taxing them. Why bother to improve yourself financially only to be raped of it in the end?

Would you, or anyone you know, turn down a nice raise or a big fat lottery winnings check just because you'd have to pay out a portion of it in taxes?

Didn't think so.

12-01-10, 01:44 PM	#20
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Its the federal governments responsibility to promote the general welfare... not provide it. they need to do away with that welfare BS right away too. fact is there are probably a hundred things that could be done away with __________________

12-01-10, 02:08 PM	#24
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." -James Madson, on a bill to subsidize cod fishermen, 1789 "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -James Madison, 1794 "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." -Thomas Jefferson, 1798 "As a matter of fact and law, the governing rights of the States are all of those which have not been surrendered to the National Government by the Constitution or its amendments. Wisely or unwisely, people know that under the Eighteenth Amendment Congress has been given the right to legislate on this particular subject (prohibition), but this is not the case in the matter of a great number of other vital problems of government, such as the conduct of public utilities, of banks, of insurance, of business, of agriculture, of education, of social welfare and of a dozen other important features. In these, Washington must not be encouraged to interfere." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1930 Funny how quickly he went back on that part about "not...social welfare". Personally, I believe that welfare is a good idea, but at the State level. The Federal Government was created to arbitrate disputes between the states and to Represent the country as a whole to the rest of the world, and I believe that its powers should be limited to that and no more. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-01-10, 02:37 PM	#29
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	"Tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more..." Just a song, but after that, then what? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-01-10, 01:38 PM	#17
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	So they decided to put a wage freeze on federal workers that's a start, they should also cut their pay about 10% except for the grunts, if private citizens have too suffer, the government workers can make a few sacrafieses. Learn more about what they want the FDIC too do, more Billions spent, more government waste, more government.