Bramha's breath

Wolfehunter · 11-27-10, 05:18 PM

Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory..

Skybird · 11-27-10, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory..

And I get called a nihilist!

11-27-10, 05:27 PM

Since we are unable to see beyond 13.5 billion years all speculation is just that, speculation. (like believing in God).

Rockstar · 11-27-10, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi.

Didn't the narrator here say it was Zhaungzi not the butterfly who went to sleep and dreamt? Wasn't it stated that it was Zhaungzi who had awoke suddenly and not the butterfly?

Quote:

But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.

Now the narrator injects some drivel to lead the reader to think there is some hidden mystery of the universe to be solved. No mystery here, not if you read the first three sentences which positively I.D. the dreamer as Zhaungzi and not the butterfly.

Next time let Zhaungzi speak for himself.

Skybird · 11-28-10, 05:41 AM

I think it is even much easier than you imply, Rockstar, it is that you simply, for whatever your reason is, do not wish to allow, or better: to consider the point of the story. Because if dream and dreamer may be the same, or at least cannot be clearly identified regarding whom is who and what is what, than the usual separation between "me" and the "world", creation and a god having created it, is being questioned. Not to mention that the distinction between man and his assumed god that he claims to have created man) is beign questioned, too. I seem to remeber that you are a strong theistic believer. Theists have traditionally a big problem with the idea that maybe there is not the god they believe in and this god's creation, but that God IS the creation - and so God is me and you, and you and me are God, and all is one. That would turn worshipping this god into a narcissistic profanity, if we ourselves are fully divine and not just subordinate to the deity at the top of the food chain, and if we are not only parts of God, but are God it-/him-/herself. For such ideas I would have been burned at the stake for heresy just short times ago.

Such thinking threatens to let collapse the hole church-conception of good and evil and sinning and heaven and hell the very basis of it's earthly power over people and their minds. The ruling of the church always was the ruling by fear. So much for the Glad Tidings.

Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility.

Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider.

Rockstar · 11-28-10, 12:24 PM

If? I can read and it sure looks as though the first three sentences prove without a doubt they are one and the same. The problem I see is the narrator is answering for somebody elses experience not allowing Zuangzi speak for himself.

You seem to do the same, telling me I am some sort of divine being, a little god. But I want to answer for myself and say to everyone here that nothing could be further from the truth. I know who I am, I know I dream and I know it is I who awake. I know I am a created being. I know my body is flesh and blood and will eventually see death.

In every way a very far cry from Abba El or any facsimile thereof.

Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility.

I would say simply that sin is rebellion against God's Commandments. Something of which I am guilty of.

Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider.

Hell? It is not as you think it is Sheol, the grave.

Skybird · 11-28-10, 01:30 PM

Once, God dreamt he was Rockstar, running and hopping around, happy with himself and doing according to what he dreamed to be the ten commandements. He didn't know he was God. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, once again omnipresent and allmighty and unmistakable God. But he didn't know if he was God who had dreamt he was Rockstar, or Rockstar dreaming he was God.

However. It was the physicist's interview that caught my attention and then searching for more stuff and finding the other three links, not a craving for another debate of religion. The congruence of Hinduist mystic and modern physics reasoning, I found fascinating since I first read Fritjof Capra's famous The Tao of Physics and Gary Zukav's maybe even better The Dancing Wu Li Masters more than twenty years ago.

11-27-10, 05:18 PM	#1
Wolfehunter Crusty Capt. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,752 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 25	Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory.. __________________

11-28-10, 05:41 AM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think it is even much easier than you imply, Rockstar, it is that you simply, for whatever your reason is, do not wish to allow, or better: to consider the point of the story. Because if dream and dreamer may be the same, or at least cannot be clearly identified regarding whom is who and what is what, than the usual separation between "me" and the "world", creation and a god having created it, is being questioned. Not to mention that the distinction between man and his assumed god that he claims to have created man) is beign questioned, too. I seem to remeber that you are a strong theistic believer. Theists have traditionally a big problem with the idea that maybe there is not the god they believe in and this god's creation, but that God IS the creation - and so God is me and you, and you and me are God, and all is one. That would turn worshipping this god into a narcissistic profanity, if we ourselves are fully divine and not just subordinate to the deity at the top of the food chain, and if we are not only parts of God, but are God it-/him-/herself. For such ideas I would have been burned at the stake for heresy just short times ago. Such thinking threatens to let collapse the hole church-conception of good and evil and sinning and heaven and hell the very basis of it's earthly power over people and their minds. The ruling of the church always was the ruling by fear. So much for the Glad Tidings. Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility. Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-28-10 at 05:54 AM.

11-28-10, 01:30 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Once, God dreamt he was Rockstar, running and hopping around, happy with himself and doing according to what he dreamed to be the ten commandements. He didn't know he was God. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, once again omnipresent and allmighty and unmistakable God. But he didn't know if he was God who had dreamt he was Rockstar, or Rockstar dreaming he was God. However. It was the physicist's interview that caught my attention and then searching for more stuff and finding the other three links, not a craving for another debate of religion. The congruence of Hinduist mystic and modern physics reasoning, I found fascinating since I first read Fritjof Capra's famous The Tao of Physics and Gary Zukav's maybe even better The Dancing Wu Li Masters more than twenty years ago. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-27-10, 05:27 PM	#3
The Third Man Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Since we are unable to see beyond 13.5 billion years all speculation is just that, speculation. (like believing in God).

11-28-10, 12:24 PM	#6
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If? I can read and it sure looks as though the first three sentences prove without a doubt they are one and the same. The problem I see is the narrator is answering for somebody elses experience not allowing Zuangzi speak for himself. You seem to do the same, telling me I am some sort of divine being, a little god. But I want to answer for myself and say to everyone here that nothing could be further from the truth. I know who I am, I know I dream and I know it is I who awake. I know I am a created being. I know my body is flesh and blood and will eventually see death. In every way a very far cry from Abba El or any facsimile thereof. Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility. I would say simply that sin is rebellion against God's Commandments. Something of which I am guilty of. Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider. Hell? It is not as you think it is Sheol, the grave.