German police arrest 22 in neo-Nazi internet raid - Page 16

Jimbuna · 11-06-10, 03:35 PM

Could be the makings of an interesting weekend...

11-06-10, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Yep. His arguments pretty much come down to this.

Show me were in this thread i used that kind of arguments. Answer non. Emty words

the_tyrant · 11-06-10, 03:40 PM

Never argue with an idiot, he would drag you down to his IQ and beat you with experience

If you think Dimitrius07 or Skybird is an idiot, than don't keep bumping this thread!

Of course, I enjoy this flame war. Since both sides have ample experience

Happy Times · 11-06-10, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Every forum needs an troll. GT would be so much more boring without one.

I liked Ivan or what was his name..

Stealth Hunter · 11-06-10, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Show me were in this thread i used that kind of arguments. Answer non. Emty words

For those who are about ready to read through this rather large list of medium-sized posts, have some background music:

And so it begins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Steve is correct.

But, moreover, the situation with Polish-German relations let alone Polish-European relations of that era is one that's largely overlooked today in history, unfortunately, by everyone.

The Poles had gone to the League of Nations to get them to award their country what parts of Silesia Germany had retained in 1921 (which was done), they had delivered an ultimatum to the Central Republic of Lithuania that demanded they hand over their territory and dissolve their government or risk war (to which the much smaller CRL complied) in 1922, and then they went back to the League of Nations in 1924, complaining about their border with Czechoslovakia (much as they had done with Germany three years previously)- after which they were awarded most of Nowy Targ County (the Czechs demanded beforehand that if this were to come to pass, that they receive in turn Sucha Gora and Glodowka in return, and this was done thankfully).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1921
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1922
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1924

The Germans had initially been in the 1930s not so interested in taking over all of Poland as part of their foreign policy as much as they had been interested in taking back the provinces which had belonged to them (including Silesia, parts of Pomerania, the provinces along the Lower Oder River Valley, etc.). Primarily, they were focused on Danzig, because it was the province that would connect the heartland with their provinces that made up East Prussia (Konigsberg and Elbing) and because it had a HUGE ethnically German population (ethnic borders comprised a large part of their foreign policy's focus, just so you know- Austria and Czechoslovakia in particular).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ungsgebiet.jpg

So initially, they asked the Poles for Danzig. They said no. Then they pointed out that they had been awarded Silesia on the grounds of ethnicity, so it was only fair that Germany receive Danzig on the same grounds. The Poles still said no. The people of Danzig, however, finally said that they did not want to be a part of Poland; they wanted to be made a part of Germany.

The Poles responded by occupying them with several garrisons of troops, and by suppressing the government that was in place there (did I mention that Danzig was a self-governing city-state that had its own republican form of government- run by a President of the Senate in the Volkstag?).

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceu...g19191939.html

In August 1939, Joachim von Ribbentrop was sent to discuss the feasibility of getting the Soviets to help Germany invade Poland if they refused a final time to submit to Germany's demands. This decision was made around the theory that, since the operation would be in conjunction withe the Soviets, the United Kingdom and France (both of whom had guaranteed they would support Poland if an invasion by Germany took place) would not seek to protest the issue with anybody or hold up to their promises to the Poles, risking war (if they did) with both Germany AND the Soviet Union (and even assuming they did, the Germans knew then, at least, they would have security in the east so the bulk of its military could be devoted to beating the French and British in the west).

http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=90

And the Soviets agreed, largely because they were pissed at the Poles for the war they'd fought with them back in 1919. Hence, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact came to existence in the late hours of August 23rd. The next few days saw Germany asking Poland one final time for Danzig and the other respective border provinces it wished to have, the British and French still voicing their support for the Poles, lots of general mobilizations of troops, and finally, on September 1st, war.

The rest is pretty straightforward. Poland was divided between Germany and the Soviet Union, and the British and French kept their word and declared war on Germany (this really is when the Second World War started- when three major world powers and numerously smaller nations that were a part of the British Commonwealth, such as Australia, Canada, Iraq, etc., faced off against one another).

Initially, the Germans made no attacks on the French or British on land, because the French and British made no attacks on them (see the "Phoney War"). This was largely in part due to the fact that the First World War's effects were still being felt in both countries, even 20+ years on. They had both become, as Hitler wrote, "politically and militarily weak".

But there was another reason: the Germans had not originally planned to go to war with either nation. In fact, they had originally dreamed of "sharing" Europe WITH them (they'd even gone through a period where they tried to be like the English in their mannerisms and they tried to be more culturally influential like the French, particularly with music and art), considering instead to expand eastward into the resource-rich areas of Russia.

Of course, in the end, it never worked out that way. Because of the outlook on Versailles and the outcome of the First World War, it was believed by most Germans that a ground war WITH the French and a decisive defeat on the English should be launched. And, in 1940, that's exactly what happened: it all blew up. The British and French decided that it was time to start thinking tactically about what countries it should concentrate on working with in order to beat the Germans, the Germans, in conjunction with this and their aforementioned feelings about Versailles, decided that it was time to fight back.

http://www.worldwariihistory.info/1940.html

The remaining five years of conflict are pretty self-explanatory. The end result of it all: 78,878,170 people died. There were lots of things that should have been done in the beginning that weren't, by both sides, that ultimately led to the war. The Poles should have given over the territory that rightfully belonged to Germany one of the two times it was requested, the British and French should not have decided to support such a minor country as Poland and should not have declared war on the Germans following Germany's invasion to take what belonged to them, and the Germans should not have decided to go on the offensive against the British and French in 1940.

Although the remaining five years, let alone this period of a few months, were vastly more complex than this brief explanation... ultimately, World War II was just as preventable as World War I. And it probably would have been for the better if it had been prevented.

EDIT:

One thing's for certain: 78,878,170 people would not have died.

The one that showed the "point" you were trying to make (that Germany was completely responsible for World War II) was complete bunk? For a man who claims to have all the answers and know all the facts, you certainly aren't doing so good at debunking my post. Which, given the huge amount of resources you evidently have, it shouldn't be a problem... it isn't a problem for you, is it?

Gerald · 11-06-10, 03:56 PM

Let us squeeze out this thread,

11-06-10, 03:57 PM

Quote:

And I was able to prove that that's complete bulls**t.

You prove NOTHING. Instead bringing historycal data regarding the current subject you go around it. To bad you did not mentioned Jesus and Roman Empire as well.

In conclusion what was the plan for Germans regarding Poland? Hm!! You know the answer and i know the answer. So don`t try to play this games with me ok. What happend to Russian soldiers in Poland in that time, you know? Innocent Germans shoot them in the back and latter invade they country as well (one of the biggest mistakes Hitler done if you ask me).
The bottom line is:
Hitler wanted to take over the world, just like any dictatorship wants.And just like you buddy in Iran also wants

. You probably going to denie this as well

.
-----------
See a person like to type long and big words. But when it comes to explanation he start to spam. Long live the internet

Stealth Hunter · 11-06-10, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

Let us squeeze out this thread,

And slap a muzzle on the trolls. A few months, preferably.

Jimbuna · 11-06-10, 04:01 PM

Anyone for tennis?

11-06-10, 04:01 PM

Quote:

And so it begins.

Nothing regarding myself calling OTHER MEMBERS nazis just because of disagreement. Sorry your claims are false and pathetic.

11-06-10, 04:04 PM

Quote:

If you think Dimitrius07 or Skybird is an idiot,

I don`t care what you think personaly. So if you have nothing else to say either join to Zombi squad or keep your insults to yourself.

11-06-10, 04:05 PM

Common.... Next!

Buddahaid · 11-06-10, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Nothing regarding myself calling OTHER MEMBERS nazis just because of disagreement. Sorry your claims are false and pathetic.

No one has said you are calling people nazis. I think most of this is poor communication, laced with 'I told you so, you idiot' comments that are childish and unhelpful. You misunderstand much and reply with confrontational words, instead of please elaborate.

EDIT: Another thing is while I agree Germany has much resonsibilty for the war, to state they were fully responsible is too simplistic and easy. The causes are deeper and had been brewing for decades. If you care to draw a line at 1/9/39, you are using blinders.

Happy Times · 11-06-10, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

What happend to Russian soldiers in Poland in that time, you know? Innocent Germans shoot them in the back and latter invade they country as well (one of the biggest mistakes Hitler done if you ask me).

The bottom line is:
Hitler wanted to take over the world, just like any dictatorship wants.

That would include the USSR and Stalin, right?
They actually had a plan to take over the world, unlike Germany and Hitler or many other dictatorships.

Gerald · 11-06-10, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Anyone for tennis?

11-06-10, 03:35 PM	#226
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Could be the makings of an interesting weekend... __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-06-10, 03:56 PM	#231
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Let us squeeze out this thread, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

11-06-10, 04:01 PM	#234
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Anyone for tennis? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-06-10, 03:40 PM	#228
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Never argue with an idiot, he would drag you down to his IQ and beat you with experience If you think Dimitrius07 or Skybird is an idiot, than don't keep bumping this thread! Of course, I enjoy this flame war. Since both sides have ample experience

11-06-10, 04:05 PM	#237
Dimitrius07 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Common.... Next!