German police arrest 22 in neo-Nazi internet raid

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

I think(not sure) that german kids at the time were fed propaganda films about how jews are bad
its not that they are evil, its just their education

So the persecution did exist, they were no convertions in the end.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

So you jump from "Nazi Germany is not so bad" to my nationality again. I am not sure you following me, but whatever.
Also how this is posible:

I rest my case on this one .

Jeez, do you really not get it?
I know your English skills are not great, but this shows they are either nonexistent or you're simply not even trying to read my posts.

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Sorry Skybird but you wrong! I don`t need Wikipedia to defend my position againts people who don`t like the some of the historycal facts. In deep i feel like someone is really bored here or something

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Wrong!! It was accepted by the influence of your nationalistic party. All evidence are there. Including all non Germans in the process. I can give you an example of how Hitler minions treated war prisoners.... injection, gas, experiments... you name it. So you see, facts are facts. Nothing you can do about it .

What the freaking heck?!
All these facts you mention have *nothing* to do with all of this. Nobody here has ever said the Nazis didn't kill any Jews. Nobody here claimed the Nazis didn't mistreat their prisoners. Nobody her ever said they didn't experiment on Jews and other people they didn't like. That is not a point of discussion here. So you can bring up all those facts you want, it doesn't prove a thing.

Originally Posted by Skybird

You are mistaking your own emotional state with facts or argument. And if you are bored here, then why do you waste your time here!?

Exactly
If someone here mentions the word "Israel", "Jew" or "Nazi" generally Dimitrius shows up in no-time and starts spoiling the thread with his own unreasonable extremist ideas

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Exactly
If someone here mentions the word "Israel", "Jew" or "Nazi" generally Dimitrius shows up in no-time and starts spoiling the thread with his own unreasonable extremist ideas

Do not feed the troll comes to mind after all this pages!

[Buddahaid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_W..._capitulations




Allied superiority and the stab-in-the-back legend, November 1918

In November 1918 the Allies had ample supplies of men and materiel to invade Germany, yet at the time of the armistice, no Allied soldier had set foot on German soil in anger and Berlin was still almost 900 mi (1,400 km) from the Western Front. The Kaiser's armies had also retreated from the battlefield in good order which enabled Hindenburg and other senior German leaders to spread the story that their armies had not really been defeated. This resulted in the stab-in-the-back legend[130][131] which attributed Germany's losing the war not to its inability to continue fighting (even though up to a million soldiers were suffering from the Spanish Flu and unfit to fight), but to the public's failure to respond to its "patriotic calling" and the intentional sabotaging of the war effort, particularly by Jews, Socialists and Bolsheviks.
A formal state of war between the two sides persisted for another seven months, until signing of the Treaty of Versailles with Germany on 28 June 1919. Later treaties with Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire were signed. However, the latter treaty with the Ottoman Empire was followed by strife (the Turkish Independence War) and a final peace treaty was signed between the Allied Powers and the country that would shortly become the Republic of Turkey, at Lausanne on 24 July 1923.
Some war memorials date the end of the war as being when the Versailles treaty was signed in 1919; by contrast, most commemorations of the war's end concentrate on the armistice of 11 November 1918. Legally the last formal peace treaties were not signed until the Treaty of Lausanne. Under its terms, the Allied forces divested Constantinople on 23 August 1923.


Can't seem to find the U.S. general (Pershing?) who wanted to keep on fighting into Germany on 11/11/18 stating that the German people would not feel defeated and we'd have to do this all over again.

Relax.... ok. Calm down.

I know your English skills are not great, but this shows they are either nonexistent or you're simply not even trying to read my posts.

You said that the jews had nothing to do with the start of ww2, and i point out to you that German national party used jews as a primer source of all problems to rise up.

All these facts you mention have *nothing* to do with all of this. Nobody here has ever said the Nazis didn't kill any Jews. Nobody here claimed the Nazis didn't mistreat their prisoners. Nobody her ever said they didn't experiment on Jews and other people they didn't like. That is not a point of discussion here. So you can bring up all those facts you want, it doesn't prove a thing.

Read the post and my reply again and you will see the connection.

If someone here mentions the word "Israel", "Jew" or "Nazi" generally Dimitrius shows up in no-time and starts spoiling the thread with his own unreasonable extremist ideas

I did not mention Israel even once, you did. And i don`t need your special permission to express my point of view, don`t like it... complain to some one who cares. And while we at it... can you show me a post with any extremist (as you called it) ideas of mine. My answer is non. The subject was about nazi Germany actions which in your opinion "Not so aggressive". I disagree with you and you have to deal with that.

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Do not feed the troll comes to mind after all this pages!

Very good turn out mister Rhodes .

First i am point out to a guy that nazi Germany was fully responsible for ww2 and as an excuse he show me 1943-1944 military operations from Wikipedia . And after that he call me a troll . I rest my case...again.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Very good turn out mister Rhodes .

Glad you like!

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Glad you like!

Glad to prove to you that your words are emty .

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Do not feed the troll comes to mind after all this pages!

Aye. Guess I will stop feeding trolls now.

Makes me wonder though... why can't trolls feed us instead? Roasted troll... yum!

Admire youself again. Its not about numbers and pictures. Its about actions and they speak not in your favor . Deliberately ignoring what others had to say, point out to our selfishness. Attempts to make it look like that only your opinion is the one that matters is another example of your selfishness behaviour. I can do the same thing you doing and examine our personality futher but i don`t think you worth my time.

Looking to his signature and start to understand why everything is going down this days. So you not a Doctor, you are tech or a future tech. Whatever

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, that's not what he was saying at all. He, like I, was saying that the average German believed he was defending his country. The were indeed told that Poland attacked Germany, and they believed it.

Steve is correct.

But, moreover, the situation with Polish-German relations let alone Polish-European relations of that era is one that's largely overlooked today in history, unfortunately, by everyone.

The Poles had gone to the League of Nations to get them to award their country what parts of Silesia Germany had retained in 1921 (which was done), they had delivered an ultimatum to the Central Republic of Lithuania that demanded they hand over their territory and dissolve their government or risk war (to which the much smaller CRL complied) in 1922, and then they went back to the League of Nations in 1924, complaining about their border with Czechoslovakia (much as they had done with Germany three years previously)- after which they were awarded most of Nowy Targ County (the Czechs demanded beforehand that if this were to come to pass, that they receive in turn Sucha Gora and Glodowka in reutnr, and this was done thankfully).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1921
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1922
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...of_Poland#1924

The Germans had initially been in the 1930s not so interested in taking over all of Poland as part of their foreign policy as much as they had been interested in taking back the provinces which had belonged to them (including Silesia, parts of Pomerania, the provinces along the Lower Oder River Valley, etc.). Primarily, they were focused on Danzig, because it was the province that would connect the heartland with their provinces that made up East Prussia (Konigsberg and Elbing) and because it had a HUGE ethnically German population (ethnic borders comprised a large part of their foreign policy's focus, just so you know- Austria and Czechoslovakia in particular).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ungsgebiet.jpg

So initially, they asked the Poles for Danzig. They said no. Then they pointed out that they had been awarded Silesia on the grounds of ethnicity, so it was only fair that Germany receive Danzig on the same grounds. The Poles still said no. The people of Danzig, however, finally said that they did not want to be a part of Poland; they wanted to be made a part of Germany.

The Poles responded by occupying them with several garrisons of troops, and by suppressing the government that was in place there (did I mention that Danzig was a self-governing city-state that had its own republican form of government- run by a President of the Senate in the Volkstag?).

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceu...g19191939.html

In August 1939, Joachim von Ribbentrop was sent to discuss the feasibility of getting the Soviets to help Germany invade Poland if they refused a final time to submit to Germany's demands. This decision was made around the theory that, since the operation would be in conjunction withe the Soviets, the United Kingdom and France (both of whom had guaranteed they would support Poland if an invasion by Germany took place) would not seek to protest the issue with anybody or hold up to their promises to the Poles, risking war (if they did) with both Germany AND the Soviet Union (and even assuming they did, the Germans knew then, at least, they would have security in the east so the bulk of its military could be devoted to beating the French and British in the west).

http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=90

And the Soviets agreed, largely because they were pissed at the Poles for the war they'd fought with them back in 1919. Hence, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact came to existence in the late hours of August 23rd. The next few days saw Germany asking Poland one final time for Danzig and the other respective border provinces it wished to have, the British and French still voicing their support for the Poles, lots of general mobilizations of troops, and finally, on September 1st, war.

The rest is pretty straightforward. Poland was divided between Germany and the Soviet Union, and the British and French kept their word and declared war on Germany (this really is when the Second World War started- when three major world powers and numerously smaller nations that were a part of the British Commonwealth, such as Australia, Canada, Iraq, etc., faced off against one another).

Initially, the Germans made no attacks on the French or British on land, because the French and British made no attacks on them (see the "Phoney War"). This was largely in part due to the fact that the First World War's effects were still being felt in both countries, even 20+ years on. They had both become, as Hitler wrote, "politically and militarily weak".

But there was another reason: the Germans had not originally planned to go to war with either nation. In fact, they had originally dreamed of "sharing" Europe WITH them (they'd even gone through a period where they tried to be like the English in their mannerisms and they tried to be more culturally influential like the French, particularly with music and art), considering instead to expand eastward into the resource-rich areas of Russia.

Of course, in the end, it never worked out that way. Because of the outlook on Versailles and the outcome of the First World War, it was believed by most Germans that a ground war WITH the French and a decisive defeat on the English should be launched. And, in 1940, that's exactly what happened: it all blew up. The British and French decided that it was time to start thinking tactically about what countries it should concentrate on working with in order to beat the Germans, the Germans, in conjunction with this and their aforementioned feelings about Versailles, decided that it was time to fight back.

http://www.worldwariihistory.info/1940.html

The remaining five years of conflict are pretty self-explanatory. The end result of it all: 78,878,170 people died. There were lots of things that should have been done in the beginning that weren't, by both sides, that ultimately led to the war. The Poles should have given over the territory that rightfully belonged to Germany one of the two times it was requested, the British and French should not have decided to support such a minor country as Poland and should not have declared war on the Germans following Germany's invasion to take what belonged to them, and the Germans should not have decided to go on the offensive against the British and French in 1940.

Although the remaining five years, let alone this period of a few months, were vastly more complex than this brief explanation... ultimately, World War II was just as preventable as World War I. And it probably would have been for the better if it had been prevented.

EDIT:

One thing's for certain: 78,878,170 people would not have died.

Your pity was not asked for, nor did I try to excuse "Mitläufer" and free them of their share of guilt - I have accused silent Mitläufer of their share of guilt myself often enough, in context both with the Nazigerman and the Muhammeddan communities. But my grandfathers both were neither Nazis, nor did they feel explicitly nationalistic - not back then, and not in the decades later. Neither had them voted for the Nazis to come to power, nor did they bring or wish to bring more nationalism to Germany than Western nations in general ticked nationalistic back in that era. And still they turned out to be victims of circumstances that - different to your claim - they, like many others, had not opted for to bring to themselves or to Germany.

This is not to excuse Naszis, or "Mitläufer", I have attacked Mitläufer myself often enough for their share of guilt in making given cirucmstances lasting on, in debates with contexts of both Nazi-Germany and Muhammeddan societies. I just want to correct this stupid polarising and stereotyping of "all Germans were Nazis". That is an extremely simplifying claim. Many Germans were turned into victims of the tryanny, too - by ideological abuse and indoctrination of the young generation, and the suffering and killing of the civilians in the cities who got killed later in the war, and many families loosing the mere basis of their existence, too. There were Nazis. There were Mitläufer. And there were innocents. The first two got dleivered what they asked for, and what they maybe deserved. The latter - were victims, like the many victims of Nazi war and Nazi terror throughout Europe.

Now question for Skybird.
Why when i asked of you to point out on where i missed something you remain silent? We could have a normal discussion for change, instead i have to deal with some random and desperate cry baby .

[DarkFish]

Don't mind his question sky. Read this post instead: http://subsim.com/radioroom/showpost...&postcount=123

[MH]

This thread turned into A German Shmaiser and Rock n Roll.
A soviet aproach to history of ww2.

@Tribsman i have real problem to understand what you stand for besides pissing off certain if not all peaple.