German police arrest 22 in neo-Nazi internet raid

Originally Posted by Platapus

Perhaps they were defending their country against the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles?

I am not opining on whether one side is "right" or "wrong" at this time.

But I hardly think the German government just decided one day "hey, nutton else on TV, let's invade Europe for the hell of it"

There are always reasons for war. Look at the US, we always fight defensive or retaliatory wars... depending on the word defensive and retaliatory.

No one just "starts" a way without having some reason... even if they have to manufacture it.

By how? Build weapon of mass destruction, and repeat the same thing which cause treaty of Versailles to take place. Maybe it was a excuse after all . War for Nazi Germany was all about land space, so claiming that it was a self defence its quite pathetic. You can check the historycal data regarding the subject and see for your self.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Perhaps they were defending their country against the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles?

I am not opining on whether one side is "right" or "wrong" at this time.

But I hardly think the German government just decided one day "hey, nutton else on TV, let's invade Europe for the hell of it"

There are always reasons for war. Look at the US, we always fight defensive or retaliatory wars... depending on the word defensive and retaliatory.

No one just "starts" a way without having some reason... even if they have to manufacture it.

You are 100% right but the thing/problem is that he turned a war that may had some justification into war for living space of master race.
Hitler was backed up with mass hysteria love until wehrmacht got its ass kicked on eastern front or until his generals realised that the guy lost grip with reality and pushed too hard.
He had no serius oposition till things/dream of master race started go wrong and it was time to prepere to face consequences.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

War for Nazi Germany was all about land space

So that was their policy.

So now you admire yourself? So much for a debate .

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

War for Nazi Germany was all about land space

Glad you say it yourself.
The war had nothing to do with the Jews. Nothing at all. Now we've finally reached this point, can I stop trying to tell you the obvious?

[MH]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Glad you say it yourself.
The war had nothing to do with the Jews. Nothing at all. Now we've finally reached this point, can I stop trying to tell you the obvious?

No it was about bacon.

[Penguin]

I think it's fair to say that the Germans had a hunch what was going on in the Reich. Hitler's goals were available for anyone to read. What happened after 1933, where the rights of many people got infringed, to use a nice expression, was visible. People knew that they can be taken away for speaking out their opinion, they had neighbours disappearing, saw destroyed shops and street violence.
Here comes the human factor into play:
- people only want to see what they like to see. Maybe only subconscious, there is the factor of denial. "What is not supposed to happen, doesn't happen!"
- the survival instinct is one of the strongest instincs of us. People do astonishing acts of bravery and also of cowardice due to it.
- what MH pointed out: it was a time and society where authority was not questioned, neither in school, family or in the military
- indoctrination & propaganda: maybe the weakest factor, as no propaganda survices the first check with reality (or a battlefield).

Of course was not every soldier a Nazi. What DarkFish has said, as confusing as it sounds today. Though Germany started an attack war, many soldiers thought they were defending their country and that they were fighting for a just cause. Since 1934 every soldier did an oath on Hitler, not on the constitution. Every German soldier was a legitimate target to fight against national socialism though.

To make my point clear and to show the shades of grey between black & white, I'll share the story of a great man who was in the war and I had the honour to know after lunch.

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Glad you say it yourself.
The war had nothing to do with the Jews. Nothing at all. Now we've finally reached this point, can I stop trying to tell you the obvious?

And what is your POINT? What are you trying to say by "nothing to do" and "Nothing at all".

[Méo]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Glad you say it yourself.

Originally Posted by DarkFish

can I stop trying to tell you the obvious?

He has just shown the obvious!

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by MH

You are 100% right but the thing/problem is that he turned a war that may had some justification into war for living space of master race.
Hitler was backed up with mass hysteria love until wehrmacht got its ass kicked on eastern front or until his generals realised that the guy lost grip with reality and pushed too hard.
He had no serius oposition till things/dream of master race started go wrong and it was time to prepere to face consequences.

I wonder what would have happened if Hitler had stopped with CZ?

Maybe, strategically, Chamberlin was right? Hitler got over confident and pushed too far and ended up fighting a war he really did not want to.

Are you going to answer my question or not?

Hitler was backed up with mass hysteria love until wehrmacht got its ass kicked on eastern front or until his generals realised that the guy lost grip with reality and pushed too hard.

Is that why he didn't have to ban any political opposition from the outset, set up a police state and put opponents into concentration camps years before the war started then?
I suppose it explains the complete lack of the many planned assasination attempts like those which certainly didn't have members of the german military aiming to kill Hitler in 1938 when Germany was still many years away from getting its butt kicked by the Russians on the Eastern front.

When you done talking to yourself give me a shout . I am going to listen to a song called "Fuhrer face"

I am going to listen to a song called "Fuhrer face"

Is that a popular song with flag waving nationalists?
How is the quest for living space coming along?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Is that why he didn't have to ban any political opposition from the outset, set up a police state and put opponents into concentration camps years before the war started then?
I suppose it explains the complete lack of the many planned assasination attempts like those which certainly didn't have members of the german military aiming to kill Hitler in 1938 when Germany was still many years away from getting its butt kicked by the Russians on the Eastern front.

So you say that Hitler wasnt surrounded by mass hysteria love from Germans he did not march into Austria as a great leader of German race?

He had opposition but he also had won most of average Germans.to his side which was his first priority before making any moves.
He knew that by tyrany alone he could not realise his plans for europe.
I never said that all Germans where Nazis but trying to paint that generation as a poor bastrds under iron foot is totally wrong.
Maybe a German did not like seeinig a Jew getting kick around but when he got his flat handed over well...why not-hard times and human nature,.Hail Hitler it is.