German police arrest 22 in neo-Nazi internet raid

Task Force · 11-03-10, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Germans knew exactly what was going on in Germany. Fighting for Germany in WW2 was fighting for Hitler, and everything that meant. they knew this.

I should not have said anyone in German uniform. I take that back. A few did the right thing and tried to kill Hitler. Those guys were OK in my book.

And you consider the nation that enslaved blacks, and killed millions of natives, and distroyed their culture, and put them on reservations all that much better?

And also the fact that not all german soldiers were nazis, there were some who where, but not all. If your country called on you, and you had to go to war or possiably die, would you say no...

tater · 11-03-10, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Task Force

And you consider the nation that enslaved blacks, and killed millions of natives, and distroyed their culture all that much better?

First, no, anyone that participated, or didn't speak out against it was culpable.

Or should I just say that only a few in power had any real control, so it was OK to just look the other way?

That said, the USA did not kill millions of natives. Thousands, yes. Millions, no. Millions may have died after first contact with the Spaniards (then brits and French) from disease. Numbers are hard to nail down, some cited are ridiculously high. Still, those people would have died even had the conquistadors really been "explorers" and just looked around and left. The damage was done thanks to bacteria and viruses. By the time the USA was starting to be settled, the native populations had already been more than decimated.

Slavery. Totally wrong from the start. To be fair, the enslavement itself was done by other africans (and was well before there were european buyers around). They were then bought by scumbags in the US. A lot of Americans with no real personal interest in the practice died to end it, for what that is worth, though.

I didn't say modern Germany was culpable in nazi crimes, I said German soldiers were "nazis" as far as I was concerned since they fought to prolong the Reich, and hence everything bad it stood for. Any German who was happy or proud when Poland, France or anywhere else fell is no better—that leaves little of the population left to be "anti-nazi."

11-03-10, 06:29 PM

Slavery was instituted by the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, etc. All nations who were involved in European trade.

To blame the US for slavery is to forget the history of the imperial nations, which the US has never been, although the opportunities have existed.

tater · 11-03-10, 06:32 PM

The USA was absolutely culpable in slavery. Forget that we stopped importing slaves, people still owned other human beings, and the horse-trading to start the country codified it.

11-03-10, 06:35 PM

Then Egyptians, Romans, Isrealites, Babalonians, Asyrians, etc. were all evil civilizations. English, Spanish, Dutch, etc. All held slaves. Once again, the US was not exclusive in its slavery. Nor did it start it.

Task Force · 11-03-10, 06:40 PM

yea, other people had slaves, but that dosent mean the Us should have, you can say we stopped all you want it still happend, and that still dosent excuse what we did to the natives. You could almost call the reservations long term concentration camps. The US did things as the trail of tears, giving the natives blankeds with small pox, ect

11-03-10, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Task Force

yea, other people had slaves, but that dosent mean the us should have, and that still dosent excuse what we did to the natives. You could almost call the reservations long term concentration camps.

Keep moving the bar. Now its about the indians. Slavery exists today. Democrats remove the possibility of freedom by giving away money, which will be worth even less tomorrow..

It is slavery by another name, and without the obvious trappings.

Gerald · 11-03-10, 06:51 PM

"[The] investigations are a strong hint to people running other extreme-right internet radio stations that dissemination of songs with extreme-right wing and xenophobic lyrics, even on the internet, will be pursued," said BKA head Joerg Ziercke.

He said they had noticed a growing trend among far-right groups to use music to recruit young people.

Last month, the BKA said that over the past decade the number of people with the potential to carry out far-right violence in Germany had doubled to around 9,000.

The BBC's Stephen Evans in Berlin says the arrests come during an intense debate in Germany over immigration, particularly from Muslim countries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11689141

Note: Update post,3 November 2010 Last updated at 21:58 GMT

Castout · 11-03-10, 08:57 PM

Good riddance.

CaptainHaplo · 11-04-10, 10:00 AM

Tater - it took 18 months for me to get a security clearance - because my grandfather (on my mother's side) was a Nazi Party member. Know what they learned? The same thing that I already knew - he was asked one day if he was a member of the Nazi Party in 1944 - with a gun to his head. He had 2 children and one on the way (my mother), so ask yourself what you would have answered in his place....

To protect his life and his family he had to register as a party member. Not every "nazi" believed in ole Adolph, or racial supremecy, or any of the rest of the bullcrap that came from that regime. Some simply didn't have a choice given the political climate they were in.

Sailor Steve · 11-04-10, 11:02 AM

"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.
-James Madison

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
-H. L. Mencken

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Göring

I've said this in threads about the American Civil War, and I've said it in threads about the Second World War - young men sign up to fight because they believe their country, their way of life and their families are threatened. Very few ever enlist out of a love of killing, or a love of an ideology. The average German soldier, and the average German civilian, was not a Nazi, and likely not even an idealist. They were just people, doing what they thought was best for their country.

I think of the quotes I posted above every time someone uses the words "Patriot Act". We are all susceptible to persuasion from above, because we all want to believe we are right, and we all want our church, our party and our country to be right as well. This blinds us to the possibility that we might be backing the wrong side for the "right" reasons.

Tater, I never suspected you had that much unreasoning hate in you.

"'My country, right or wrong' is something no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case."
-H. L. Mencken

Skybird · 11-04-10, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've said this in threads about the American Civil War, and I've said it in threads about the Second World War - young men sign up to fight because they believe their country, their way of life and their families are threatened. Very few ever enlist out of a love of killing, or a love of an ideology. The average German soldier, and the average German civilian, was not a Nazi, and likely not even an idealist. They were just people, doing what they thought was best for their country.

Sometimes you do not have that choice to voluntarily enlist. You get forced to enter the army either by threatening sanctions to yourself, or to your loved ones at home - period.

Task Force · 11-04-10, 03:06 PM

Good post last page skybird, As Joea said, I actualy read all of it, instead of skimming over it.

DarkFish · 11-03-10, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I didn't say modern Germany was culpable in nazi crimes, I said German soldiers were "nazis" as far as I was concerned since they fought to prolong the Reich, and hence everything bad it stood for. Any German who was happy or proud when Poland, France or anywhere else fell is no better—that leaves little of the population left to be "anti-nazi."

So let's say you were a German youngster in the late 30s/early 40s. One day, a Wehrmacht officer comes knocking on your door, telling you you're drafted into the army, report at your nearest Wehrmacht base tomorrow.
But instead of obeying the officer, you shout "**** Hitler!" in his face and go into hiding. In a nazi-infested country, reliable and courageous enough people are hard to find, but you're one of the lucky few and find a farmer miles out of town who lets you stay in exchange for some hard field labour. Meanwhile, you are labeled a traitor and your family gets arrested and put on the first train to Auschwitz. But hey, what does it all matter to you since you finally had the chance to defy Hitler

11-03-10, 06:40 PM	#6
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	yea, other people had slaves, but that dosent mean the Us should have, you can say we stopped all you want it still happend, and that still dosent excuse what we did to the natives. You could almost call the reservations long term concentration camps. The US did things as the trail of tears, giving the natives blankeds with small pox, ect __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

11-03-10, 06:51 PM	#8
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	"[The] investigations are a strong hint to people running other extreme-right internet radio stations that dissemination of songs with extreme-right wing and xenophobic lyrics, even on the internet, will be pursued," said BKA head Joerg Ziercke. He said they had noticed a growing trend among far-right groups to use music to recruit young people. Last month, the BKA said that over the past decade the number of people with the potential to carry out far-right violence in Germany had doubled to around 9,000. The BBC's Stephen Evans in Berlin says the arrests come during an intense debate in Germany over immigration, particularly from Muslim countries. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11689141 Note: Update post,3 November 2010 Last updated at 21:58 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

11-03-10, 08:57 PM	#9
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Good riddance. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

11-04-10, 10:00 AM	#10
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Tater - it took 18 months for me to get a security clearance - because my grandfather (on my mother's side) was a Nazi Party member. Know what they learned? The same thing that I already knew - he was asked one day if he was a member of the Nazi Party in 1944 - with a gun to his head. He had 2 children and one on the way (my mother), so ask yourself what you would have answered in his place.... To protect his life and his family he had to register as a party member. Not every "nazi" believed in ole Adolph, or racial supremecy, or any of the rest of the bullcrap that came from that regime. Some simply didn't have a choice given the political climate they were in. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

11-04-10, 11:02 AM	#11
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad. -James Madison "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -H. L. Mencken "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -Hermann Göring I've said this in threads about the American Civil War, and I've said it in threads about the Second World War - young men sign up to fight because they believe their country, their way of life and their families are threatened. Very few ever enlist out of a love of killing, or a love of an ideology. The average German soldier, and the average German civilian, was not a Nazi, and likely not even an idealist. They were just people, doing what they thought was best for their country. I think of the quotes I posted above every time someone uses the words "Patriot Act". We are all susceptible to persuasion from above, because we all want to believe we are right, and we all want our church, our party and our country to be right as well. This blinds us to the possibility that we might be backing the wrong side for the "right" reasons. Tater, I never suspected you had that much unreasoning hate in you. "'My country, right or wrong' is something no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case." -H. L. Mencken __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-03-10, 06:29 PM	#3
The Third Man Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Slavery was instituted by the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, etc. All nations who were involved in European trade. To blame the US for slavery is to forget the history of the imperial nations, which the US has never been, although the opportunities have existed.

11-03-10, 06:32 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The USA was absolutely culpable in slavery. Forget that we stopped importing slaves, people still owned other human beings, and the horse-trading to start the country codified it.

11-03-10, 06:35 PM	#5
The Third Man Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Then Egyptians, Romans, Isrealites, Babalonians, Asyrians, etc. were all evil civilizations. English, Spanish, Dutch, etc. All held slaves. Once again, the US was not exclusive in its slavery. Nor did it start it.

11-04-10, 03:06 PM	#13
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Good post last page skybird, As Joea said, I actualy read all of it, instead of skimming over it. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"