A question about the Sonar Ping

KriegsMarine · 10-25-10, 11:39 PM

hi my fella skippers

i have always been haunted by one question when i compare the SH4 to the venerable SHCE. That is in SHCE the frequency of DD sonar ping will change when it hits your submarine hull thus this effect will let you know you are spotted by enemy's sonar.But in SH4 i can't find this important effect,so the question is: In real life ASW,which sonar effect is realistic? SHCE or SH4?

Thanx in advance

regards, KriegsMarine

WarlordATF · 10-26-10, 12:16 AM

What i have noticed about SH4 is that its more of the speed of the tone instead of a different ping sound to sound like the ping has been reflected.

If its a slower ping, ping, ping then the DD is just searching, but if you get a series of quick pings they have located you.

I'm not sure if there is another way to tell if they have found you or not, but others will share their ideas/info soon.

Thrair · 10-26-10, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarlordATF

I'm not sure if there is another way to tell if they have found you or not, but others will share their ideas/info soon.

If they speed over you and start dropping depth charges on your head, they've found you.

Figured I'd swear that hard-earned wisdom.

WernherVonTrapp · 10-26-10, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarlordATF

What i have noticed about SH4 is that its more of the speed of the tone instead of a different ping sound to sound like the ping has been reflected.

If its a slower ping, ping, ping then the DD is just searching, but if you get a series of quick pings they have located you.

I'm not sure if there is another way to tell if they have found you or not, but others will share their ideas/info soon.

That has been my experience also. A slow but steady increase in the speed (not pitch) of the pings.

KriegsMarine · 10-26-10, 07:05 AM

OK, thank you my friends for your info

so could we conclude that the sonar ping feature in SHCE is not that realistic or just for the gameplay fun and SH4 is more realistic ?

i am just curious about what the real WWII sub skipper heard when the sonar ping hit the sub hull.

thanx

WernherVonTrapp · 10-26-10, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KriegsMarine

i am just curious about what the real WWII sub skipper heard when the sonar ping hit the sub hull.

thanx

He heard, "Ping".

KriegsMarine · 10-26-10, 08:04 AM

lol

why no reflection sound ?

WernherVonTrapp · 10-26-10, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KriegsMarine

lol

why no reflection sound ?

That "ping" (is) the reflection sound, as it bounces off your sub.

Armistead · 10-26-10, 09:41 AM

The game renders the sub going from long scale to short scale fairly well. They will still make runs on you in long scale, so don't think you're safe. If you listen, the loudness of the sound changes, the tone doesn't. If they catch you broadside on shortscale, they really have you located. Some of the most dangerous runs are when they come in from the side instead of the stern. I'm also fairly sure the better their status, they're much better at when to throw. I almost always go flank to outrun the charges, but elite escorts will throw a pattern much further in front of you.

The bad thing in game, moreso with cam and contacts off is you have no direction of ping. Not sure how sound reflects in the sub, but certainly sonar would be able to detect the direction of the ping. When you have several around, it's often difficult to know who's pinging so you can narrow your profile.

Armistead · 10-26-10, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

That "ping" (is) the reflection sound, as it bounces off your sub.

In reality you would hear a escort pinging when using active sonar regardless if he had you. Most the time escorts didn't run the seas using active sonar, in some cases could be picked up 50nms away. A few stories of escorts doing this in the war and subs used it to track to the position. That's another failure of the game, you only hear active sonar when you're in it's cone. It's really an obvious advantage to us, we know when we hear pinging we've been located, in reality they didn't.

I assume subs could hear the return ping, knowing then they were in trouble....? I think that's what KM means and no that's not in the game, the subs return ping to the enemy. However, when you sub uses active sonar, we can hear the return ping and get distance to the target which you're aware of......maybe that's what he was referring to as a guess, the return "bong", not the active ping....

Geesh, I confuse myself on these pain meds....

.

KriegsMarine · 10-26-10, 10:31 AM

thanx for your info,armistead

so in real life, sub skippers could only hear the escort's active sonar ping while could not hear the bouncing sound caused by the sub hull ?

so in SHCE the bouncing sound we hear in a sub is not realistic, right?

NorthBeach · 10-26-10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

He heard, "Ping".

Armistead · 10-26-10, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KriegsMarine

thanx for your info,armistead

so in real life, sub skippers could only hear the escort's active sonar ping while could not hear the bouncing sound caused by the sub hull ?

so in SHCE the bouncing sound we hear in a sub is not realistic, right?

Well, I was asking Wernher...

, he's the brain.

I do know this. In reality if a ship goe's active you will hear the active ping. It doesn't have to have a target, he's searching, so you will hear the active sonar. If the active sonar hits a target, then you get a bounce back, if not, the sound wave will max out. I imagine with the equipment we have today you could pick up active sonar from hundreds of miles in the right conditions.

The return ping doe's sound different, obvious different sound waves on the return. If you're the one using active sonar, if you hit a target, you will hear the return bong in game, so yes, you will hear it if you hit a target.

I read a few stories of subs hearing active sonar from 50 plus nautical miles away. Sometimes the JP's escort did go active leading TF. I guess they thought with speed even if a sub heard them they couldn't catch up, so better to cover the front of the TF with sonar. Obvious a TF
has limited listening skills going fast on the surface. In game ships can only do one thing at a time, use sonar or listen, not both. So even if you're not being pinged, doesn't mean they're not listening. What hasn't been clarified in game to me is can a ship only listen when stationary?

What I was asking Wernher is if he knew is a sub could pick up a return bong. I assume not because the sound wave would be bouncing away, make sense. We don't hear the return in the
game, nor do I think we would. If he has us on shortscale, he's obvious getting a Ping/Bong every few seconds, but we hear only the ping.

Just like in your sub, if you send a active ping, you wait for the return ping, more of a bong....Your ping has hit the target, so it makes a different sound. Using that info you can figure distane to the target. In game it's simple, just wait for the return bong and send to TDC and you get accurate range.

I honestly don't know if subs had active sonar in WW2 that ran all the time as they do today. Obvious they wouldn't use it. The DD's did, so I assume a sub could go active...if he was dumb.

Shew..all this pinging and bonging is getting to me.

10-26-10, 11:27 AM

All this talk of bongs is giving me the munchies!!!

Armistead · 10-26-10, 11:59 AM

Just know this, you go bonging around the Pacific, the DD's will hear it and come right to you, so be very careful about using active sonar. Sometimes I do it with cams and contacts off to get range when they're far away, but I've had escorts leave TF's from 13nms chasing my ping...

Sometimes it's useful, more than not it will slow the TF down as they go into zigs.

10-25-10, 11:39 PM	#1
KriegsMarine Loader Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Point Posts: 90 Downloads: 1309 Uploads: 0	A question about the Sonar Ping hi my fella skippers i have always been haunted by one question when i compare the SH4 to the venerable SHCE. That is in SHCE the frequency of DD sonar ping will change when it hits your submarine hull thus this effect will let you know you are spotted by enemy's sonar.But in SH4 i can't find this important effect,so the question is: In real life ASW,which sonar effect is realistic? SHCE or SH4? Thanx in advance regards, KriegsMarine

10-26-10, 12:16 AM	#2
WarlordATF Frogman Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SW Florida Posts: 288 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	What i have noticed about SH4 is that its more of the speed of the tone instead of a different ping sound to sound like the ping has been reflected. If its a slower ping, ping, ping then the DD is just searching, but if you get a series of quick pings they have located you. I'm not sure if there is another way to tell if they have found you or not, but others will share their ideas/info soon. __________________

10-26-10, 07:05 AM	#5
KriegsMarine Loader Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Point Posts: 90 Downloads: 1309 Uploads: 0	OK, thank you my friends for your info so could we conclude that the sonar ping feature in SHCE is not that realistic or just for the gameplay fun and SH4 is more realistic ? i am just curious about what the real WWII sub skipper heard when the sonar ping hit the sub hull. thanx

10-26-10, 08:04 AM	#7
KriegsMarine Loader Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Point Posts: 90 Downloads: 1309 Uploads: 0	lol why no reflection sound ?

10-26-10, 09:41 AM	#9
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	The game renders the sub going from long scale to short scale fairly well. They will still make runs on you in long scale, so don't think you're safe. If you listen, the loudness of the sound changes, the tone doesn't. If they catch you broadside on shortscale, they really have you located. Some of the most dangerous runs are when they come in from the side instead of the stern. I'm also fairly sure the better their status, they're much better at when to throw. I almost always go flank to outrun the charges, but elite escorts will throw a pattern much further in front of you. The bad thing in game, moreso with cam and contacts off is you have no direction of ping. Not sure how sound reflects in the sub, but certainly sonar would be able to detect the direction of the ping. When you have several around, it's often difficult to know who's pinging so you can narrow your profile.

10-26-10, 10:31 AM	#11
KriegsMarine Loader Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Point Posts: 90 Downloads: 1309 Uploads: 0	thanx for your info,armistead so in real life, sub skippers could only hear the escort's active sonar ping while could not hear the bouncing sound caused by the sub hull ? so in SHCE the bouncing sound we hear in a sub is not realistic, right?

10-26-10, 11:27 AM	#14
NoGoodLandLubber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	All this talk of bongs is giving me the munchies!!!

10-26-10, 11:59 AM	#15
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Just know this, you go bonging around the Pacific, the DD's will hear it and come right to you, so be very careful about using active sonar. Sometimes I do it with cams and contacts off to get range when they're far away, but I've had escorts leave TF's from 13nms chasing my ping... Sometimes it's useful, more than not it will slow the TF down as they go into zigs.