Anybody here like playing Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition?

[MH]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Just play the computer game already

True.
Try civilization 3 or 4 exellent turn based games for PC.
You can also play them on line or via email or even hot seat with friends.

[UnderseaLcpl]

I enjoy playing Axis and Allies as a casual game, but as a strategy game it has about as much depth as Risk, a game whose depth of strategy is aptly described by its name. A&A suffers from the lack of a fog of war and the resultant strategic possibilities and pitfalls, as well as an oversimplified probability mechanic. The pre-arranged and unchangable alliances don't help matters any. And then there's setting up all those damn pieces...

A simple game I would recommend is "Diplomacy", which is set in pre-WW1 Europe. Nothing is left to chance in this game, but rather to your ability to think creatively and read other players. All moves are planned secretly on paper (which you may or may not choose to reveal to others) and made simultaneously. The actual game mechanics are a bit like GO, which is to say that they are focused upon guile and maneuver, but the real game takes place between the players, not on the board. No single power can stand alone at the outset, so the emphasis is placed upon, unsurprisingly, diplomacy.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

A classic is The Operational Art Of War III, which is a reference title. I do not like the font and am not happy with the itnerface, but I must admit with that complaint I seem to be alone - I never heared anyone else complaining about it (except the fonts).

The new patch (3.4), which is now in beta, changes the graphics extensively, and I believe there are new fonts as well. Though I don't think the interface itself is changed too much.

I haven't played it yet, though, waiting for the completed release.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The new patch (3.4), which is now in beta, changes the graphics extensively, and I believe there are new fonts as well. Though I don't think the interface itself is changed too much.

I haven't played it yet, though, waiting for the completed release.

Ha, that is synchronicity - I got 3.4173 (a new Alpha even is 3.4196 or so) just hours ago, and had a first look at it. Maps look much better, and as far as I remember: the counters as well (or I get fooled by memory, I am not sure). However, the fonts are still the same golden bitmap fonts in microscopic dimension, against no neutral but greyish background structures and greyish pictures. I checked the forum of theirs, first visit there since 2006 or 2007, I think, a hint at how to chnage the fonts to Windows Arial did not work - or I misunderstood something vital. Many people seem to complain abpout the fonts, back then and still now. I wonder why they have not adressed it over the past 3-4 years, if such complains are coming up time and again.

I tried some font mods as well, but they seem to be for earlier versions 3.2 and before. Somebody posted a screenshot of simple fonts yellow against dark grey and white against grey background, no structure and pics. It was relief to the eyes, my eyelids started to clap up and down in applaus extatically. But not in my version. The stupid interface buttons, also no joy to look at, also had been simplified and kept in 2-colour 2D only, which also helped a very lot.

If you find out something, let me know please. I always hated to bypass TOAW3 due to the frustration of needing to stare at the monitor until it hurt (on 2 different screens). Currently I exclusively focus on Danube 85, but in some weeks or months I would love to give TOAW3 another visit, if the fonts now can be altered.

[Skybird]

Never mind, I searched again, found this:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...fonts&#2546152

and the ini posted there did a very good job.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Skybird

What do you complain about? It'S at the very basis of any cosim, and has been seen as a valuable tool for military training as well. Compared to it, a cosim's sequence of play and strategic "depth" - I would not call it that - is shallow, and just a sequence of repetitive automatically carried out actions (for that reason real-time strategy games, at least all I have ever tried over the past 15 years or so, hardly are strategy games at all, they do not pose a challenge to your strategic imagination - you just find the one winning playing mechanism that is successful and then repeat that one in every match with your mouseklicks as fast as you can, mostly it is about in what seqeunce to produce units, and producing them fast). The basis of any strategic thinking is the balacning of the three factors space, time and matter (fields, moves, pieces) in various, ever-changing constellation, and how the one can be traded for the other. When you think of it, any military problem comes down to a constellation of these three factors, from logistics over Blitzkrieg to gaining important grounds.

Chess is not about a given strategy in a specific constext or environment, like in a cosim where you have these and no other rules and this and no other map, and such counters and no others. It is about strategy itself, and the need to constantly change and adapt it. A Cosim does not give you that challenge raised by ever-changing challenge, it'S always the same limited set of types of challenges. A cosim teaches you strategic thinking at best in the context of the game system, but not beyond. You cannot carry it over to for example economic problems or behavior at the stock market in reality, because your way of handling space, matter and time within the cosim'S context cannot that easily, if at all, taken over to the way you want to set up the policy and competitive behavior of your business company. Chess trains your strategic thinking at a much more profound, basic, general level less depending on the context of the rules of that game, and that game alone. And that's why you can benefit from that in real life as well - not from the rules of chess, but your habit of being used to handle and balance these three factors on the chessboard, and in a cosim and in real life as well: space, time and material. It'S a bit like being a "culture-free" (="game-rules-free") training of strategic thinking.

Not related to real life...?! I must say that chess has had a certain, maybe not spectacular but still undeniable influence on my way of thinking and analysis. It'S hard to tell whether I liked chess because it met my analytical mindset, or my analytical attitude emerged due to having learned chess (in my early childhood). Probably a mixture of both.

However. The other things chess can teach you wonderfully, are: patience, and discipline. Not before and not after the right time has come, you carry out the most appropriate action. And that also is an art you can use very well in life. The right move at the wrong time, the wrong figure for the right task, a misled situational understanding while having advantage in time and material - and you nevertheless spoil it. Only when all three come together, you secure the win: time, space and material.

-----------------

BTW, there are quite some competently done PC cosims. It helps you to save table-space, and money.

A classic is The Operational Art Of War III, which is a reference title. I do not like the font and am not happy with the itnerface, but I must admit with that complaint I seem to be alone - I never heared anyone else complaining about it (except the fonts).

I currently digged myself into the matter of Modern Campaigns: Danube 85, doing the full campaign with the front from Denmark down to Austria. Again, I initially cmplained about the interface giving me some visual problems due to the smallnesss of some things, but I have adressed that by using a map mod, and having edited the design of unit counters myself, so now it is a bit more friendly to the eyes, or so it seems to me. A title I also would recommend.

And available for free, there is Steel Panthers: Main Battle Tank (or World War II, if you prefer that era). Still an outstanding title, despite the looks showing it's age.

First I wasn't complaining about anything just gave my opinion about chess. I don't mean it was a bad game I just think it's a too abstract game for me. Too abstract to relate to real life situation at least that's how I perceive it but you seemed to argue that it trains your mind to adapt to different changing challenges even though chess is a pure abstract game. Well I may be able to see that point but other games teach you that too . . .

As for RTS yea I do completely agree that there's no strategy at all in RTS games or hardly any strategy in it. In fact I even found little strategy in games such as Hearts of Iron 2(never tried the third) due to AI being not a very capable opponent( and the lack of human psychology in AI).

As for cosim,
But I think I just wrote what I've learned from one specific German board game which I listed about 18 points of them. That too give the players training to adapt to different ever changing challenges like chess does. It really does and does it much better at least to me with multiple enemies and much more chaos and uncertainty! So it wouldn't be valid to state that only chess can teach one the ability to adapt to ever changing situation. Shogun for one teaches you just that without being too abstract. That game teaches the art of war to put it bluntly maybe not as comprehensive as Sun Tzu's Art of War but it does teaches one the strategic aspect of art of war! No kidding!
I don't have anything against chess . I really don't. Just that because of its abstraction I found it hard to play and master well but I have to admit I never give it a serious attempt. I don't find this difficulty with the board game Shogun for example.

I played Steel Panthers but somehow electronic adapted board game never attracted me much largely because I feel I couldn't outguess the enemy because it has got no psychology and even I never seemed to attempt to play a serious strategic game with AI or rather compelled to give a serious thinking and felt no reward for having defeated it. For example while playing board game such as Shogun people who are not used to thinking hard for extended period of time like 3 hours or more(5 hours on first game) will find it difficult to keep up in the last hour or minutes. I have had friends becoming agitated because they were too much damn tired for having to think hard for extended period of time. One even needed to lay down for a while to rest before the game ended because he was really mentally drained up and to think that they are almost ten years younger than me! As for me being a nerd who spent extended period of hours studying until 2-3AM really paid off by granting me extended mental stamina and allows me to be still able to think well.
In the end somehow I find witchcraft appeal to a box of components and placing those on the table and playing them with other people.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I enjoy playing Axis and Allies as a casual game, but as a strategy game it has about as much depth as Risk, a game whose depth of strategy is aptly described by its name. A&A suffers from the lack of a fog of war and the resultant strategic possibilities and pitfalls, as well as an oversimplified probability mechanic. The pre-arranged and unchangable alliances don't help matters any. And then there's setting up all those damn pieces...

A simple game I would recommend is "Diplomacy", which is set in pre-WW1 Europe. Nothing is left to chance in this game, but rather to your ability to think creatively and read other players. All moves are planned secretly on paper (which you may or may not choose to reveal to others) and made simultaneously. The actual game mechanics are a bit like GO, which is to say that they are focused upon guile and maneuver, but the real game takes place between the players, not on the board. No single power can stand alone at the outset, so the emphasis is placed upon, unsurprisingly, diplomacy.

Yeah I'm aware that it's not a very detailed strategy game but it does still allow one to analyze to try to defeat multiple human enemies. It's basically a game of placement a little like chess only much less abstract(no pun to Skybird or chess just me who's too stupid to play chess )

As for diplomacy I too once got interested in it until I played it on the web.
The game will definitely ruin friendships(and to think I already haven't had great friends to board game with) Frankly i hate the game which forces the players to lie and I'm not a very wicked person and I don't believe in being one either nor I am very good in lying made worse with easily trusting other people.

[Castout]

I found a more interesting way to play Axis and Allies called fog of war or blind play. The downside that it needs 2 BOARDS



Some notes on it:

Blindplay or “Fog of War” Axis and Allies
The club plays almost exclusively a blindplay variant that introduces a significant “fog of war” aspect and thereby greatly multiplies the range of options and strategies available to all players. It rewards focused and careful players that are able to imagine and keep track of unseen enemy units but also allows new opportunities for daring, aggressive and even reckless strategies that are otherwise precluded in traditional play.


Key Blindplay Rules

• Referee: The Club prefers having a referee to help speed up play.
• Purchases, Non-Combat Movement, and Mobilization not shared with opponents.
• Reconnaissance is conducted by bombers, one IPC per bomber, and occurs after follows purchases and before combat movement. Bombers cannot be used again in the turn. AA guns and battleships may fire at reconning bombers (both hit only on 1).
• Naval Movement: Non-combat naval movement is only possible in sea zones controlled by your alliance (submarines excepted). Otherwise, naval movement occurs during combat movement phase. If one wishes to control sea zones, one must declare surface warship movement into those sea zones. If one does not wish to declare such movement and wishes to pass unnoticed through potentially hostile sea zones, the referee can check sea zones for enemy ships.
• Reserve Forces: When opponent attacks a superior defending force, the defender need not declare all his defenders.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by MH

True.
Try civilization 3 or 4 exellent turn based games for PC.
You can also play them on line or via email or even hot seat with friends.

You dare mention Civ without mentioning Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri!

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I enjoy playing Axis and Allies as a casual game, but as a strategy game it has about as much depth as Risk, a game whose depth of strategy is aptly described by its name. A&A suffers from the lack of a fog of war and the resultant strategic possibilities and pitfalls, as well as an oversimplified probability mechanic. The pre-arranged and unchangable alliances don't help matters any. And then there's setting up all those damn pieces...

A simple game I would recommend is "Diplomacy", which is set in pre-WW1 Europe. Nothing is left to chance in this game, but rather to your ability to think creatively and read other players. All moves are planned secretly on paper (which you may or may not choose to reveal to others) and made simultaneously. The actual game mechanics are a bit like GO, which is to say that they are focused upon guile and maneuver, but the real game takes place between the players, not on the board. No single power can stand alone at the outset, so the emphasis is placed upon, unsurprisingly, diplomacy.

Never played A&A for that reason. I loved Diplomacy and played it at school quite a bit. The fun part is off the board where you need to use your guile and diplomacy skills to set up alliances, knife opponents in the back whilst hugging them and smiling to their faces. Great game if you can get a good group together who are into it.

[kiwi_2005]

I found it very boring WW2 mode was far to easy, campaign was dumb down and AI was unbalanced. Anniversary edition might be an improvement.

You can't beat Company of heroes even though not a board game idea but best WW2 RTS game ever to come out. Brought the gold edition comes with expansion and playing the British campaign atm, brilliant game.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

I found it very boring WW2 mode was far to easy, campaign was dumb down and AI was unbalanced. Anniversary edition might be an improvement.

You can't beat Company of heroes even though not a board game idea but best WW2 RTS game ever to come out. Brought the gold edition comes with expansion and playing the British campaign atm, brilliant game.

Frank we're talking Axis and Allies the board game not Axis and Allies the PC game so what AI would that be?

[Skybird]

Castout, my argument about chess and cosims was that cosims are the more specific context in which some strategic thinking takes place, while chess is more unspecific. By that I mean that the greater the abstraction of it all is, the more diverse is the number of totally different contexts to which the thinking pattern can be adapted, while the more specific the context of former "training" was, the more limited to situations being relatively similiar to that context you are in benefitting from that in other situations.

I have read your list with traits you attributed to cosims, but I do not agree with all of that. Cosims, for the most, to me are a challenge of doing a good ammount of organisaing things and moving a lot of stuff around, sometimes hundreds of counters. I admit that one can take pleasure from that, too, and quite considerable ammounts of. But even the cosims I like have not give me anything I benefitted from im real life. Chess has, both privately, and professionally.

And when, as a young juvenile, I met my to-be mentor and trainer (meditation, martial arts, swords, a bit of archery), he first wanted me to learn Go as well. He gave up that demand when he understood that I already was engaged in chess, saying that it serves the same purpose he intended (I know Go by the rules, but not much more, so I rank as a total beginner).

Anyhow, this reply just because I believe you understood me wrong. And after all, it's all just about games, and how to enjoy best what one likes.

BTW, I have done some more testing with TOAW3 this night, and solved a CTD problem by using a -nosound command line (it still is a beta, the latest update), getting a stable game with very much imporved looks and a compüromise in fonts and visualinterface that I can live with, I also ediated all backgropund to make them simply plain grey windows with no pictures. With 4 years derlay I now am ready to re-engage with this title, I really recommend it now. It seems to be great for PBEM games, too, many scenarios are optimised for that.

And I forgot one recommendation earlier: Conquest of the Aegean, a dramatically well-done cosim without turns and "fields", and with the by far best AI I have ever seen in any game. It kicks the hell out of me most of the time and plays really nasty and surprising, giving me the perfect illusions to play against an uncalculatable human. A new title using the same system, Battle for the Bulge, has been released this summer, but I do not know how far the patching process is.

And for a title that is free, this one is well-done, too:
http://www.armoredbrigade.com/download.html

[Castout]

i play armored brigade from time to time but still not too much of strategy to me there but enjoyable and fun nonetheless.

As for the 18 points or so I made that was not just from comsim in general but all came from just one specific board game(shogun). Try playing that if you have the chance . I've played other board games which teach you much less or have little or very little education value to it and more about entertainment and fun too. Not all board games carry the same weight.

Umm I think I got you right. You were saying basically just because chess if abstract it doesn't mean it cannot teach one anything with regard to life's perspective. I think I can see your point and appreciate it.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Castout

Umm I think I got you right. You were saying basically just because chess if abstract it doesn't mean it cannot teach one anything with regard to life's perspective.

Nööö, not really: I said that right becasue it is more abstract it can teach you about other situations a bit better than a game which is more specific in its focus.

It's a gamer's version of the scientific reliability-validity-dilemma. You cannot have both - the more you focus on the one, the less you get of the other, and vice versa.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliabi...3%A4ts-Dilemma

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nööö, not really: I said that right becasue it is more abstract it can teach you about other situations a bit better than a game which is more specific in its focus.

It's a gamer's version of the scientific reliability-validity-dilemma. You cannot have both - the more you focus on the one, the less you get of the other, and vice versa.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliabi...3%A4ts-Dilemma

Actually that already crossed my mind too

The thing is our brain is designed in such a way so that more efficient result could be gotten from frequent usage. I've noticed that while playing certain board games I tend to get a mild headache which is only noticeable towards the end or after the game(usually after the game though). And it's not due to illness or high blood pressure or anything.


This headache will gradually diminishes after frequent plays of that specific board game. I sincerely believe it's the neuron pathways connecting in a way they were never before. The brain is rewiring itself. It can only do this if one gives a serious effort to the thinking process despite the difficulty.
If one just simply plays without committing to winning there's no way the brain is going to form new pathways.

I take it it's the same or similar process happening when one plays chess regularly

Edit now I just re read your previous post and it became a lot clearer well English is not my foremost virtue (sheepish)