Energy efficient bulbs affecting your health?

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

I believe in most of Europe it is 60Hz but at 110v or thereabouts? I don't know what the specs are in the US, but I assume after that video that it runs at 50Hz.

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since the invention of radio, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

Theres an echo in here

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

Thankyou DF for your correction! Electromagnetic high frequency signals, SHF+EHF (2Ghz+) do have measurable effects on living cells - notably microwaves who's wavelength is equivalent to the size of a water molecule. Wireless digital technology uses 2.4Ghz to beam the data and it has been observed that prolonged short range exposure causes an increase in temperature in the affected tissue. There is also some argument as to wether it can cause nuclear damage to cells, splitting chromosomes etc.. which could be a cause of abnormal cell behaviour I.e tumours. However compared to Ionizing atomic nuclear radiation (which are charged particles emmited from atomic nuclei as opposed to photons) the effects are insignificant.

Visible light occurs in the spectrum at frequencies of about 10^14 Hz above
microwaves, Infra Red and all man made data signals. Ultra Violet occurs directly above visible light, then X-rays then gamma rays at 10^20 Hz. However these gamma rays are not to be confused with nuclear gamma radiation, which is particularly damaging to living tissue.

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

(gives about 325V peak to peak)

It's actually 650V peak to peak.

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Thankyou DF for your correction! Electromagnetic high frequency signals, SHF+EHF (2Ghz+) do have measurable effects on living cells - notably microwaves who's wavelength is equivalent to the size of a water molecule. Wireless digital technology uses 2.4Ghz to beam the data and it has been observed that prolonged short range exposure causes an increase in temperature in the affected tissue. There is also some argument as to wether it can cause nuclear damage to cells, splitting chromosomes etc.. which could be a cause of abnormal cell behaviour I.e tumours. However compared to Ionizing atomic nuclear radiation (which are charged particles emmited from atomic nuclei as opposed to photons) the effects are insignificant.

Visible light occurs in the spectrum at frequencies of about 10^14 Hz above
microwaves, Infra Red and all man made data signals. Ultra Violet occurs directly above visible light, then X-rays then gamma rays at 10^20 Hz. However these gamma rays are not to be confused with nuclear gamma radiation, which is particularly damaging to living tissue.

What these people claim, who are trying to sell these products to people who think they are hypersensitive to electricity, is that ..."scientists consider to be the most "biologically active" electromagnetic frequeicies (4kHz to 100kHz)"

http://www.dirtyelectricity.ca/stetzer_filters.htm

I feel vely solly for the submariners who are constantly bombarded with very low frequency radio transmissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlf

[Alex]

Let's conclude saying new technologies (coming from the oh so beloved US of A most of the time) are ways to keep control over worldwide demography.

*sudden roaring of thousands of chain saw startups*

[Sammi79]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34963043/D...g-the-Emf-Myth

^ this site references the most recent studies in the possible harmful effects of low frequency EMF and concludes from the results that the evidence for harmfull effects in all cases is inconclusive. It also references the proven effects of high energy, high frequency EMF like those that come from your mobile phone.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

It's actually 650V peak to peak.

Oops I just multiplied the value by √2, without taking into account that a sine goes down too

Anyway, I'm not in the slightest way scared of electromagnetic radiation. Maybe if you'd put an EM source under your pillow, you'd get health problems after a few years of sleeping. But most people don't have EM sources under their pillows.

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

I'm studying electrical engineering at the moment

You too? Where?

[SteamWake]

American distribution is like this

All 60 Hz

(Common) Transmission lines 1,2470V 3 phase

Stepped down to 277/480 (3 phase) often for commercial buildings lighting and equipment.

Then stepped down again to 120/240V (single phase common for homes and smaller facilites) or 120/208V (3 phase common for commercial buildings receptacles and light equipment.

Very rarely is 12470 brought into a building but it is not unheard of. Also 4,000V is sometimes used for large commercial facilitys (Sawmills, Hospitals, etc.)

Oh and its the square root of 3 for three phase but thats only for calculating current. It is still commonly refered to 208V 3 Phase but the calculation for current is (wattage) / (voltage x square root of 3)=I or current.

I commonly will just round off the numbers for quick calculations. 480V = 831, 208V = 360

[frau kaleun]

So far I think the effect on my health has been nothing but positive.

I put three of those bulbs in the 3-bulb light fixture in my dinette area on Dec 1 2007 and I haven't had to replace a single one of them yet.

This has greatly reduced my chances of falling off a chair and breaking my neck whilst changing the bulbs in the dinette light fixture.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

So far I think the effect on my health has been nothing but positive.

I put three of those bulbs in the 3-bulb light fixture in my dinette area on Dec 1 2007 and I haven't had to replace a single one of them yet.

This has greatly reduced my chances of falling off a chair and breaking my neck whilst changing the bulbs in the dinette light fixture.

She raises a very valid point. This is what we in the trade call the 'maintinance factor'. A very important consideration when installing lighting up above 10' or so.

Again LEDs win this concept as well as their lamp life is far superior to any other source. In fact with proper current limiting more often than not the driver (power supply) will go bad before the LEDs do.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

She raises a very valid point. This is what we in the trade call the 'maintinance factor'. A very important consideration when installing lighting up above 10' or so.

Again LEDs win this concept as well as their lamp life is far superior to any other source. In fact with proper current limiting more often than not the driver (power supply) will go bad before the LEDs do.

Yep, that's certainly been the primary consideration for me. I haven't noticed any disconcerting changes in quality of light or anything else.

The ones in my dinette were the first ones I bought and I made a very big mental note of the date when I changed them because I wanted to see if they really did last that much longer. When I had the old-style incandescents in there, I was changing one out every couple of months, it seems. Being the light that is "centermost" in my apartment, it's the one that is on the most - it lights up not only the dinette, but the kitchen, the hall, and enough of the living room that if it's on I don't need much in the way of additional lighting in any of those areas for most everyday activities.

Edit: hit submit too soon, lol. I was going to add that since then I've put the new bulbs in all the ceiling (or otherwise PITA) fixtures. And as old bulbs burn out in lamps and such they get replaced with the new ones as well. I don't think I've changed any of them yet since switching.

[SteamWake]

Well you chose well.

Where these compact fluorescents really shine (sorry couldent resisist) is in applications where they are turned on and left on for long periods of time. Good for porch lights or applications like yours. For hall closets pantrys etc. where you flick the light on get what you want and flick the light off your better off with incandescents.

Believe it or not frequently turning on and off a CFL for short periods of time can lead to a substantial shortening of their life and a dramatic fall off of light out put of up to and beyond 60%.

Oh and once again LEDs outperform in this aspect as well, they dont care how long their on and can even be 'strobed' without impacting their lumen output or lamp life.