Perspective from a complete newbie :(

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?

Yes and no. You can choose to stay in your patrol grid for 24 hours, or for your entire patrol, or not go there at all. The stock game awards renown for reaching the grid and putting in 24 hours there, but GWX removes the renown award (unless you mod it back in) for following those orders.

In RL most boats were ordered to take up station in a particular area and stay there until additional orders were received, or they made contact with enemy shipping and gave chase.

The game reflects the assignment of a patrol area, but you are free to leave it at any time at your own discretion to look for enemy shipping. Or you can read the "immersion" radio messages that come in and respond/react to information that you get from those regarding general u-boat operations. It's up to you. But the game is not going to tell you in particular where to go or what to do with your time at sea, other than assigning you a patrol grid when you leave base.

Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

But it's a reflection of RL... SH3 is primarily a u-boat simulation, and so the attempt is to make the playing experience simulate real life aboard a combat vessel. Getting in and out of port and to and from one's patrol area reflects that.

If you're not playing at 100% realism, you can hit the Esc key at any time and exit your patrol (return to base) without making the journey back. However there's no function that will teleport you from the base to a patrol area. The "game" is meant to start when you leave port. Many things can happen on the way to your assigned grid (should you choose to go there) - encounters with enemy warships and merchants included.

If you use SH3 Commander, you can opt to start and end your patrols "at sea." This will not land you in the middle of a patrol grid when you load a new patrol, however it will move your starting and ending coordinates to the outer edge of your home harbor/base/docks. That means that the time you spend navigating through and around local shipping just to get to sea is greatly reduced or even eliminated.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

The fatigue issue can be modded to better suit one's preferences, or done away with entirely. Someone else here can address how to do it manually, but it can also be done very easily with SH3 Commander. I use Commander's "no fatigue" model so I'm not sure what "normal" fatigue looks like... someone else will have to address whether or not something is wrong with your install in that respect, or if what you are experiencing is the way it's supposed to be (and how to manage the crew fatigue issue).

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

In stock, other vessels are color-coded to indicate whether they are friendly, enemy, or neutral. GWX removes the color-coding so that all vessels have to be identified visually by you when you encounter them (just like in RL). You can add the color-coding back into the game with the GWX Contact Color mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=33

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

When you end your patrol, you get whatever renown is coming to you for what you achieved (ships sunk, aircraft downed). Your renown will show up either in the patrol log, or your personnel file, or both (I'm not sure).

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

If you were playing in August 1939, that message is for ships based in Konigsberg. If you were based in Kiel, it would not apply to you.

Additionally, if you started your career in August 1939, things are going to be pretty boring for that first month because the war hasn't started yet. There is no enemy shipping, no enemy planes, no combat action (unless you choose to start a private war of your own by firing on someone just for the heck of it).

It may be that some of the simulation/immersion aspects of SH3 just aren't for you, and that's okay. But nothing you're describing is a bug or an issue with the game itself (aside from possible problems with crew fatigue, which I can't comment on as noted above). It's how the game was meant to be, especially the GWX version - a simulation that recreates as best as possible (given the limitations involved) the experience of commanding a combat u-boat from 1939-1945. That includes navigating in and out of base where required, making the transit to one's assigned station, and then waiting to make contact with the enemy.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up.

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

1. Get SH3 Commander - you can select your own grid refs to patrol, alternatively don't, go wherever you choose anyway - it makes no difference with GWX.

2. Get SH3 Commander - you can select 'start patrol at sea' which is better, you still have to sail throught the Kattegat though. Or you could start your career at Wilmshaven, or depending on dates, any other base!

3. Get SH3 Commander and select the 'no fatigue' option - let's face it real Kaluens didn't micromanage their crew!

4. GWX makes SH3 more realistic, during the '39 - '45 conflict kaluens did not have magical maps that instantly colour-coded (color if you are American) their charts according to the danger! You are supposed to stalk your prey, get close enough without getting seen and use your ship recognition manual (big book to the left of your periscope) to find out which ships are which! Also with GWX in the periscope screen are references (pull down tabs - top left) which list the flags involved and dates they're enemies, simply locate the flag on the hunted vessel, correspond with the flag on the chart and if your dates are right, los!

5. Personally I get to about 25km of port I'm docking at and then Esc, Exit Patrol, Dock at [port]. Yes, it does get a bit samey, but as 1 - you don't have to go where they say!

6. GWX messages are mostly for immersion - the fact is that you would've got similar messages in real life. Some are scripted for things like the fall of France or Norway when their ports began opening up to U-boat operations and your flotilla may have moved to one of these.

Most importantly, the creators of GWX spent alot of their time doing their best for the common or garden user. They improved the stock game no end and received only the odd thank-you in forum messages, they didn't earn 20-40k for doing the job that Ubi should've done (or be doing?). As part of the doing their best they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual, it comes free, gratis and for nothing with GWX itself and like Jim says - READ IT

If after all that, you still need more, go buy an xbox.





PS: this post is not meant to offend

PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day.

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid.

PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it!

flag4 beat us both.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day.

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid.


[SIZE=1] flag4 beat us both.

I'm just glad I watched it load into Reader before printing - soon decided against it

Read the questions then just replied and your post started on new page. And I thought you'd been quick off the mark, quiet day at work?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by flag4

....hmmm, have i made any silly mistakes

Only ones that Steve would pick up on

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

I'm just glad I watched it load into Reader before printing - soon decided against it

Read the questions then just replied and your post started on new page. And I thought you'd been quick off the mark, quiet day at work?

I bit the bullet and printed it because I'd rather have a hard copy to refer to than scroll through a pdf file - easier on my eyes. Plus it's very handy if I need to look something up and I have the game running.

And actually it looks like a lot of folks beat us to the punch!

[Jimbuna]

This is developing into quite an interesting thread

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

This is developing into quite an interesting thread

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin

Enjoy......we're having steak in a peppered sauce tonight

[Herr-Berbunch]

Stir-fry for me, now this is an interesting thread, and a can or two later on left over from a party at the weekend (for my two year-old, can't drink like she used to!)

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Stir-fry for me, now this is an interesting thread, and a can or two later on left over from a party at the weekend (for my two year-old, can't drink like she used to!)

LOL....likewise (on the drinks side)

I count myself fortunate when you consider I forgot to get a card yesterday for our 26th anniversary

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

LOL....likewise (on the drinks side)

I count myself fortunate when you consider I forgot to get a card yesterday for our 26th anniversary

And you're welcome.

[Sailor Steve]

Or if you're a little more modern-minded...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

And you're welcome.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Or if you're a little more modern-minded...

LOL

Oh it'll cost me when we're out shopping at the weekend.....you can bet on that

[poetic hunter]

Wow, what a pleasant surprise to see such helpful responses. They are enough to give me a new burst of inspiration to continue on !

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

If after all that, you still need more, go buy an xbox.

Ok, you are not the only person who said something that borders on snide sarcasm, but even if you're joking, remember that there is a specific reason why I called the thread "perspective from a complete newbie."

That's the mindset from which I'm playing the game, and the reason for that was explained in post 1.

Please try and understand...in most games, you're usually given clear objectives as to what to do. But in so called open-ended games like Morrowind, even though you have objectives, you can do whatever you want. However, if you're brand new to Morrowind, you're better off sticking to the main quest line at least for the early quests until you know the land better.

In SH 3, after GWX, you can also "do whatever you want." But you have the seemingly endless expanse of the ocean at your disposal !

Can't you guys see how from the perspective of a new person, this "do whatever you want" objective style is more than a bit daunting. That person wouldn't know where the "Hot spots" you guys keep referring to are. He/She wouldn't know where to go find the hot spots with convoys, enemy ship patrols etc. Therefore the "Do whatever you want !" mission style is daunting in the beginning.


You guys have been extremely helpful otherwise, and the maturity of the people on this board is refreshing compared to what most game-related boards are like.