Obamacare Lawsuit to be heard in my hometown this week

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

This is what folks mean when they say the Democrats are elitist. Maybe it's just the Independent in me but i'll never vote for a party that says i'm too dumb to be their boss.

First off - not a Democrat.

I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. You know darn well that the American electorate is stunningly ill-informed on all sorts of issues and facts - ranging from basic procedures and civics to recent events.

In 1996 voters were asked whether the deficit had gone up or down under Bill Clinton. It had, in fact, plunged — but a plurality of voters, and a majority of Republicans, said that it had risen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/op...n.html?_r=1&hp

“Whenever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government.” - the famous liberal elitist Jefferson.

only one in four Americans could name more than one of the five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment (freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly and petition for redress of grievances), but more than half could name at least two members of the Simpsons cartoon family.

...

Another poll a few years ago found only one in five Americans knew Congress has 100 senators and only two in five could name all three branches of government.

http://www.phillytrib.com/tribune/co...mb-ocracy.html

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You know darn well that the American electorate is stunningly ill-informed on all sorts of issues and facts - ranging from basic procedures and civics to recent events.

Like I said, elitist, or racist, or possibly both. It's a common dem mantra that ought to serve them really well come November.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

Like I said, elitist, or racist, or possibly both.

Uh, no.

[Sailor Steve]

Mookie, I'll say the same thing to you that I say to anyone I hear criticizing Utah drivers: Never forget, you are one.

You are the American electorate. Some of them are, as you say, not so well informed. I actually place myself in that category. Others are very well informed indeed. But whether you are one or the other is unknowable at best. Inform yourself all you like, you have to face the possibility that you could still be wrong. And others need to face the idea that you could be right.

And it's true that the great majority don't know and don't care, but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you. As I've tried to remind others, it's how you say it that comes across.

[antikristuseke]

Stop talking sense in a political thread, you are missing the point of politics entirely!

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Mookie, I'll say the same thing to you that I say to anyone I hear criticizing Utah drivers: Never forget, you are one.

You are the American electorate. Some of them are, as you say, not so well informed. I actually place myself in that category. Others are very well informed indeed. But whether you are one or the other is unknowable at best. Inform yourself all you like, you have to face the possibility that you could still be wrong. And others need to face the idea that you could be right.

And it's true that the great majority don't know and don't care, but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you. As I've tried to remind others, it's how you say it that comes across.

To be fair it's not Mookie in particular, but rather a school of thought that pervades Dem party thinking.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

To be fair it's not Mookie in particular, but rather a school of thought that pervades Dem party thinking.

Group mentality also pervades the Right. But I only speak to individuals.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Group mentality also pervades the Right. But I only speak to individuals.

In short, birds of a feather flock together.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Group mentality also pervades the Right.

I don't deny that but the Gop does tend to refrain from belittling the people who vote them into office. Dems would be well advised to do the same.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Mookie, I'll say the same thing to you that I say to anyone I hear criticizing Utah drivers: Never forget, you are one.

You are the American electorate. Some of them are, as you say, not so well informed. I actually place myself in that category. Others are very well informed indeed. But whether you are one or the other is unknowable at best. Inform yourself all you like, you have to face the possibility that you could still be wrong. And others need to face the idea that you could be right.

And it's true that the great majority don't know and don't care, but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you. As I've tried to remind others, it's how you say it that comes across.

Steve, as always I defer to your wisdom.

However I do take issue with one thing: "but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you." In this case, I was not arguing any side of an issue, I was making a point about the state of the average American voter. My lament is that honest and informed discussion has been replaced by polemics and ideological dogmatic talking points, fed to people by the talking heads on the TV. And I do try to consider alternative points of view - I posted a link from "The American Conservative" magazine earlier today. I was clicking through some of the articles on that site and found a lot of them surprisingly well reasoned and sound - even though I disagreed, it was very well informed commentary without the hand waving proclamations of doom about sleeper cell Manchurian Candidate presidents.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

In this case, I was not arguing any side of an issue, I was making a point about the state of the average American voter. My lament is that honest and informed discussion has been replaced by polemics and ideological dogmatic talking points, fed to people by the talking heads on the TV.

I understand, and agree. It just seemed to me that August was responding to what it sounded like. Perhaps what he read was not the way you meant it, but it did sound like that to me as well.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I understand, and agree. It just seemed to me that August was responding to what it sounded like. Perhaps what he read was not the way you meant it, but it did sound like that to me as well.

Chalk it up to me not being a very good writer.