Obamacare Lawsuit to be heard in my hometown this week

[gimpy117]

and how exactly is "obamacare" illegal?

it's funny how many illegal things bush did...but everybody let it slide.

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

and how exactly is "obamacare" illegal?

Show me in the US Constitution where it gives the Federal Government permission to require that I do business with a private company.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by August

Show me in the US Constitution where it gives the Federal Government permission to require that I do business with a private company.

Furthermore where it states that it can require you to purchase and pay for a service / product.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

Show me in the US Constitution where it gives the Federal Government permission to require that I do business with a private company.

There are a lot of things that are legal that are not explicitly stated in the constitution.

Show me in the constitution that my tax dollars can be used for space exploration. Show me in the constitution where the DEA can arrest me for a meth lab. Show me in the constitution where I have to comply with a flight attendant's directions.

Etc etc

[AVGWarhawk]

Show me in the constitution where I have to comply with a flight attendant's directions.

It depends on what she looks like and what she is asking me to do.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It depends on what she looks like and what she is asking me to do.

If you're expecting nice looking flight attendants, it's clear that you haven't flown lately.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

If you're expecting nice looking flight attendants, it's clear that you haven't flown lately.

You sir are correct!

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

There are a lot of things that are legal that are not explicitly stated in the constitution.

Show me in the constitution that my tax dollars can be used for space exploration. Show me in the constitution where the DEA can arrest me for a meth lab. Show me in the constitution where I have to comply with a flight attendant's directions.

Etc etc

Whether you think they are legal or not is immaterial as they are not the same things Mookie.

This is a whole new area of government control that probably won't survive constitutional muster once it gets to the SC.

Where else does the government have the right to make you purchase services or goods from a private company? I think mandatory car insurance comes the closest and that only applies if you want to drive on public roads and then only your liability against damages to others.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by August

I think mandatory car insurance comes the closest and that only applies if you want to drive on public roads and then only your liability against damages to others.

living is a right.

driving is a privilege.

two totally different things. you dont have the right to drive a car any more than you have the right to fly an airplane... you must be licensed on some level be it state or federal to do those things... therefore, you may be required to meet numerous requirements in order to operate your vehicle.

the left likes to go back to Bush a lot. they like to spout off about "you guys supported Bush at every turn" which is simply NOT true a lot of "us" didnt support the wire tapping, or the formation of the TSA and a lot of the other crap he pulled.

the fact is that the Government does not have the authority to mandate to the people that they must do business with a company or that they must purchase a certain good or service.

the problem here is a simple one.

for decades, the federal government has been power grabbing, diminishing our rights, cutting into our personal lives and becoming more and more a tyranny with every "election".

the democrats do it, the republicans do it... and they slice away a little piece of our liberty every time someone moves into the white house.

it doesn't matter who it is in there, they do it.

and the fact remains that half the nation will oppose these cuts into the flesh of liberty, and the other half will support it based solely on whether there is an (R) or a (D) at the end of the person's name.

The American people cannot see the forest for the trees. Its sad really. but true.

I have cried fowl over this health care bill from the start.

its not just a health care bill, and for those who have taken the time to read the thing - you know all the nonsense that FILLS this bill up with garbage.

America will not last forever, she will destroy herself from within. thats a fact. her days are numbered IMHO simply because we have become a selfish, foolish, entitlement society - unless we can change that - we are screwed.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

it's funny how many illegal things bush did...but everybody let it slide.

That part I'll certainly agree with. This has nothing to do with legal or illegal, just "my guy against yours". It's a political post, nothing more.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

That part I'll certainly agree with. This has nothing to do with legal or illegal, just "my guy against yours". It's a political post, nothing more.

You are incorrect.This has everything to do with the constitutionality of the health care law passed earlier this year.When Bush was doing things I did not like, I spoke up about it but was not on the boards then.Guess what, it does not matter because Bush is not the President and just because one President championed causes that pissed on the Constitution does not mean the next one should get a pass, esp when tweaking something as personal as healthcare.Bush looks like a freaking saint compared to Obama, so get over it and lets talk about NOW.I did not vote for Bill McCollum for Governor but certainly proud to have him as my Attorney General who has the guts to take on the regime.

Obamacare is blatantly unconstitutional.The individual mandate is a great example because the Federal government does NOT have the power under the consitution to tax, penalize(called an excise tax) etc for not buying something.Surely even the most left wing hater of the consitution can see that this flies in the face of what our republic stands for.For if that were true, the government could technically force you to buy anything they deem you need.Obama likes Pepsi?, well he could techinically make us buy Pepsi under the Feds line of thinking.Slippery Slope, remember that.

Then the cost of this monster.We are already in debt, big time and although the scumbags who constructed this law tried to argue it would not add debt, guess what? The CBO has said it will cost more than expected and it will run up yet more debt.The bill is unpopular because it muders liberty when it comes to healthcare, costs too much, will raise health care costs(due to higher taxes on medical equipment etc) and really is just a giant F U to the people under the guise of helping us because the President and Dems in Congress believe they know what is best for us.

There are a few good things but they do not outweigh the faults of the bill.The good things include stopping companies from denying for pre existing conditions.Allowing students to stay on parents insurance until 26, this directly affects me as since I am in law school now and no longer employed, I need my parents insurance but if I do not have it, well I'll handle it.

The Republicans will most likely win mid terms in a big way and have vowed repeal and repass, so the few good things combined with some tort reform(yes coming from an aspiring lawyer) and some other things could make a decent, constitutional healthcare law.No doubt we need some reform in our system but Obamacare is not reform, it's giant, unconstitutional power grab that will damage our republic even further and those who fail to see that, well hopefully they will see the light someday.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

You are incorrect.This has everything to do with the constitutionality of the health care law passed earlier this year.

Fair enough, and as usual I agree, being much more conservative than you might think. The problem is the old saying "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." When you use dismissive terms like "regime" you come across as narrow, one-sided and opinionated. I've said before that you sound like you learned your politics from Sean Hannity. Sorry if that offends, because I agree with you more than you know, but you make conservatives look bad.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Fair enough, and as usual I agree, being much more conservative than you might think. The problem is the old saying "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." When you use dismissive terms like "regime" you come across as narrow, one-sided and opinionated. I've said before that you sound like you learned your politics from Sean Hannity. Sorry if that offends, because I agree with you more than you know, but you make conservatives look bad.

Well I feel Obama Admin has earned the title of Obama Regime, so I use it.Say some Republican(of alleged Republican like McCain, etc) were to to to pass such a blatantly unconstitutional law, I would be just as upset.I was upset the Patriot Act, although I understand it had good intentions I felt it could be abused and turned on American citizens not involved with terrorism, so I was opposed to it which believe me, made plenty of my fellow conservatives angry esp after 9/11.

[Aramike]

Show me in the constitution that my tax dollars can be used for space exploration. Show me in the constitution where the DEA can arrest me for a meth lab. Show me in the constitution where I have to comply with a flight attendant's directions.

Article 1, Secton 8, Clause 1 states: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Hence the space program. Congress can collect taxes to pay for things. Congress cannot force citizens to pay private companies for things. Furthermore the same section grants Congress the power to ban your meth lab and the 4th Amendment provides where the DEA can enter your home and arrest you for it. Finally, the flight attendent can force you to comply due to the Federal Aviation Act which was legally enstated by Congress due to powers granted to them via Article 1 Section 8.

Congress forcing all citizens to pay private companies for insurance could be considered a federal tax, but such a tax seems to be a clear violation of the language in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 which states "...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States", unless of course the bill provides that all insurance coverage costs be precisely the same (which I don't believe it does). And even then it would be a stretch to consider a payment to private companies a tax.

(To be honest, I believe a single-payer system would be far more Constitutional than Obamacare, but people just don't want that.)

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Aramike

(To be honest, I believe a single-payer system would be far more Constitutional than Obamacare, but people just don't want that.)

Well I wanted that, and the people I voted for wanted that, the rest of congress didn't apparently...