1WO means...

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I don't think someone at the rank would be considered senior to all the NCOs - he's on the track to be a CO, but not there yet, and thus wouldn't get "officer status" in the field. As noted upthread there's really no exact equivalent for the rank in US/UK navy terms but it seems like his position would be roughly the same as a midshipman in the US Navy. As a Fähnrich and not an Oberfähnrich he'd probably fall right where his bunk assignment indicates, among the less-senior NCOs.

My bad, they would probably best resemble a warrant officer rank until they become a leutnant.

Here's a comprehensive chart for the navy:

I apologize for the clipping on the file, the page was written in html and hard to figure out a way to get it displayed on this site. The Chief Petty Officer Row (completely missing) and bottom of the Warrant officer 1st class are clipped

To see the whole list correctly click here

http://pelsia.741.com/source.html




Sorry about the ads, I don't have any easily accessible webspace around and just needed something quick.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by Tessa

My bad, they would probably best resemble a warrant officer rank until they become a leutnant.

Here's a comprehensive chart for the navy:

The US Navy side of this chart is wrong in the enlisted ranks. A Petty Officer First Class outranks a Petty Officer Second, and so on. A Seaman First Class outranks a Second, who outranks an Apprentice. Left out here, too, are Senior and Master Chief Petty Officers.

Otherwise, I think part of the problem here is trying to make a simple "top-to-bottom" rank chart, which is simply not possible in the US and UK navies, since midshipmen are/were sort of an intake route to officership. Midshipmen simply don't exist in that hierarchy.

If they did in the German navy ranks, at that time, of course, is another question.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

Otherwise, I think part of the problem here is trying to make a simple "top-to-bottom" rank chart, which is simply not possible in the US and UK navies, since midshipmen are/were sort of an intake route to officership. Midshipmen simply don't exist in that hierarchy.

If they did in the German navy ranks, at that time, of course, is another question.

I'm guessing the status of officer candidates in the KM was about the same. They're in a special category - not enlisted men, but not yet COs, and it sure doesn't seem like they occupied some hypothetical rung in the ladder above the former but just below the latter. Or were accorded the kind of status when serving in a crew that one might expect if that were the case.

[Draka]

Think of middies as your (very) younger brother - always underfoot, not quite coordinated enuf to actually DO anything with you and your friends, but Mommy INSISTS you let him tag along .....

Middies in all navies are strictly makee-learnee, not in any formal chain of command but strictly there to learn and get some experience. Back in the days of sailing ships, a middie in the RN might actually be given some duties and responsibilities in the smaller ships, but to my knowledge not in any Navy in the "modern" age.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Draka

Think of middies as your (very) younger brother - always underfoot, not quite coordinated enuf to actually DO anything with you and your friends, but Mommy INSISTS you let him tag along .....

Unfortunately we always talked about ensigns in those exact same terms.

Middies in all navies are strictly makee-learnee, not in any formal chain of command but strictly there to learn and get some experience. Back in the days of sailing ships, a middie in the RN might actually be given some duties and responsibilities in the smaller ships, but to my knowledge not in any Navy in the "modern" age.

Sounds like a description of 'Fanrich' to me.

[Obersteuermann]

I think the ranks of Fähnrich and Oberfähnrich are analogous (in the RAF and British Army - not so sure about the RN) to the modern day Officer Cadet.

These are trainees, enlisted and paid as private soldiers, but may understudy a regular officer until they are themselves fully commissioned. They are given the honorary title of OCdt and certain privileges like use of the officers' mess. From reading Iron Coffins by Herbert Werner, his duties aboard his first boat as a Fähnrich sounds pretty close to that ... and being the most junior, his officers dumped all their post-patrol paperwork on him the moment they reached port!

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

The US Navy side of this chart is wrong in the enlisted ranks. A Petty Officer First Class outranks a Petty Officer Second, and so on. A Seaman First Class outranks a Second, who outranks an Apprentice. Left out here, too, are Senior and Master Chief Petty Officers.

Otherwise, I think part of the problem here is trying to make a simple "top-to-bottom" rank chart, which is simply not possible in the US and UK navies, since midshipmen are/were sort of an intake route to officership. Midshipmen simply don't exist in that hierarchy.

If they did in the German navy ranks, at that time, of course, is another question.

Good job, thanks for catching that. I'll update the html page (can be done quickly), getting the chart inside this thread will still be a bit of a challenge since the html doesn't convert cleanly to bb, otherwise would've posted it that way. Aside from having the PO's as WO's upside down in terms of their rank this' still the best comparison chart that has everything all in one place. All the decent ones I've found in the past split officer's and enlisted as two seperate charts.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Tessa

Aside from having the PO's as WO's upside down in terms of their rank this' still the best comparison chart that has everything all in one place. All the decent ones I've found in the past split officer's and enlisted as two seperate charts.

Have you seen post #48 and #50?