Neutrals and Neutrality

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I believe it's in the basic.cfg, near the top.

Look for

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=200
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

Change the value for NEUTRAL. I guess if you changed it to zero you'd neither gain nor lose renown if you sank a neutral vessel. Better wait for an older hand to confirm, though, I've not tinkered with this myself.

Exactly right. I changed Neutral to 0, because I don't sink neutrals ever, but if one gets accidentally hit in a convoy they didn't make any noise about it.

I also changed AXIS to -1, since there were several Axis ships accidentally sunk by u-boats, and in every case the target ship was found to be outside the prescribed areas of operation and/or disguised as an Allied merchant. I figure a small renown hit is fair, but not the huge one they give.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I also changed AXIS to -1, since there were several Axis ships accidentally sunk by u-boats, and in every case the target ship was found to be outside the prescribed areas of operation and/or disguised as an Allied merchant. I figure a small renown hit is fair, but not the huge one they give.

Food for thought.

I've considered changing NEUTRAL to 0 but, since I'm using the Contacts Colour Mod, figured I'd wait and see if I ever want so much realism that I remove it. Otherwise it seems unlikely that I'd hit a neutral by mistake, although the point about hitting one in an enemy convoy by accident is well taken.

Never had considered tinkering with the value for AXIS but you make a good argument for it. It's not like anyone's likely to go around looking for Axis ships to sink so even in-game it would always be accidental and the RL penalties for it certainly took that into consideration.

Didn't one of the fluff radio messages state that it was okay to attack neutrals if they are escorted by enemy warships? If so, that validates any editing on the renown settings for those occasions.

[Zedwardson]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Never had considered tinkering with the value for AXIS but you make a good argument for it. It's not like anyone's likely to go around looking for Axis ships to sink so even in-game it would always be accidental and the RL penalties for it certainly took that into consideration.

For humor sake, I was tempted one time to see how many eels it would take to sink the Hipper, but it was a too good looking of a ship to sink....

(As a aside, the Admiral Hipper is one of the best looking ships of its era, at least to me)

[JEuler]

I think it's okay to edit the files,so you don't get negative renown for sinking neutrals.
You can simulate the prize rules and sink them if you want or let them go.

In 1939-40 many neutral ships were sunk according the prize rules.

Here's an example how it was done http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB37-2.htm

It's the war diary of the 2nd patrol of U-37 from october-november '39,they sunk 3 neutral ships during the patrol.

[U777]

I always let them go unless its proven that they sail to England or its allies. It won't be good if a Irish ship gets sunk sailing to the US (pre Dec 1941).

[iambecomelife]

I set the neutral renown value to 1/2 of standard and try to behave realistically. If a neutral's on the open sea I will leave it alone, but if it's near a British port or in convoy I will attack. Neutrals from pretty much every maritime country were sunk during the war, and commanders rarely seem to have gotten into trouble for it. I can only recall one commander getting into trouble with Hitler or Doenitz (an attack on the battleship "USS Texas", which missed).

[HW3]

U-507 Harro Schacht sank 5 neutral Brazilian ships in 2 days off the South American coast, resulting in the deaths of over 500 people. Brazil declared war against Germany 5 days later on 22 Aug, 1942.