Israel: Iran Nuke Plant 'Totally Unacceptable' - Page 2

Gerald · 08-22-10, 01:14 PM

is that there is always a potential security risk to gain control over their need of access to material,and it has nothing to do with the construction of power plants, although there are suspicions that the country an interest that there should be weapons-related, they have more plants not only this..

Platapus · 08-22-10, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

My point was that the Bushehr reactor isn't capable of enriching or producing enriched uranium or plutonium, so I don't get the big deal of it going nuclear.

Technically the Bushehr reactor can produce Plutonium. Pretty much every fission reactor produces PU as a byproduct. The issue is what can the Iranian's do with the PU that will be produced at Bushehrr?

Not much. Even if they were allowed to keep the irradiated fuel rods (which is not part of the agreement) the Iranians do not have a Uranium reprocessing capability (e.g. PUREX) nor do they have a reprocessing facility (which are very hard to hide). Additionally, the Bushehr reactor will be monitored so that the burn-times of the rods will be known, which helps determine the isotope of PU being produced.

So this means

a. The Iranians will not be keeping the irradiated fuel rods with PU byproduct.

b. The Iranians will not be able to cook the rods to minimize the production of 240PU without everyone in the world knowing about it.

c. If they were able to keep them, they do not have the capability of extracting the PU.

And we have not even touched on whether Iran has the capability of constructing an implosion device. If you ask the North Koreans, they can tell you that it ain't easy.

There is a lot to worry about concerning Iran. This reactor is not one of them.

TLAM Strike · 08-22-10, 04:13 PM

But they could build a bomb with just the U-235 like Fat Man (The Hiroshima Bomb) and Thin Man type devices.

This reactor doesn't matter either way.

Platapus · 08-22-10, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

But they could build a bomb with just the U-235 like Fat Man (The Hiroshima Bomb) and Thin Man type devices.

This reactor doesn't matter either way.

you are absolutely correct. If they want to build a 235U device, they won't need a reactor at all, but their Uranium Enrichment facilities.

Only if they want to build a 239PU device will they need irradiated fuel rods, but then they also need a PUREX type facility.

A "thin man" device won't work. The Thin Man was a Plutonium gun type device. There are many obstacles to making a gun-type PU device (the speed of the gun needs to be about 10X faster than for a U gun-type device, for example), but in any case, for all practical purposes, if a nation is going to use PU for their devices, they will need to go with the much much more complicated and complex implosion design.

Bubblehead1980 · 08-23-10, 05:35 PM

Russia can't really be trusted to do the right thing, esp with Putin in charge.

08-23-10, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Russia can't really be trusted to do the right thing, esp with Putin in charge.

Of course it can.
Russia can be trusted to do the right thing for Russia just like any other country can be.

TLAM Strike · 08-23-10, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Russia can't really be trusted to do the right thing, esp with Putin in charge.

Dmitry Medvedev Current President of Russia.

Gerald · 08-23-10, 06:46 PM

but if it really needed more "balls", to have the former KGB officer Vladimir Putin more of a say ..

Zachstar · 08-23-10, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Russia can't really be trusted to do the right thing, esp with Putin in charge.

Are you honestly saying Russia would do something as stupid as say giving Iran a few of the used fuel rods?

Aramike · 08-23-10, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Dmitry Medvedev Current President of Russia.

Medvedev is President. Putin is Prime Minister, having been given that position due to term limits on the presidency.

Anyone who believes that Putin isn't in charge in Russia is decieving themselves.

Bilge_Rat · 08-24-10, 07:53 AM

According to what I read, Iran already has enough material to build 2 nuclear devices, but to build them, they would have to take certain unmistakable steps, like kicking out the inspectors, which would alert everyone to what they are doing.

Let's not forget that most governements in Europe, America and even the middle east do not want Iran to possess nuclear weapons.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq upset the balance of power by taking out a Sunni regime and replacing it by a Shiite government. This allowed Iran to extend it's influence into Iraq. This worries the other regimes in the region, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia which have a Sunni majority.

Saudi Arabia is especially worried because it has a restless Shiite minority in its eastern provinces. Saudi Arabia, since 1948, was one of the most hard line states in its opposition to Israel. Yet, over the past few years, they have held direct but discreet talks with the Israeli governemnt and recently gave the IAF permission to overfly their territory, presumably if it becomes necessary for Israel to attack Iran. The Saudis now realize that Iran is a greater threat than Israel, which is wonderfully ironic.

As usual, the ROW is quite willing to let Israel do the dirty work when it suits their national interest. Just compare the muted response of all governments, including Arab states in the region, when Israel attacked the Syrian reactor in 2007 to the outrage over the botched flotilla raid earlier this year.

antikristuseke · 08-24-10, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa_smurf

But doesn't Iran have 2 nuclear enrichment facilities ? So they do have the possible capability to enrich Uranium to weapons grade.

By the way the centrifuges in those facilities are arranged, they can not make weapons grade uranium.

TLAM Strike · 08-24-10, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

By the way the centrifuges in those facilities are arranged, they can not make weapons grade uranium.

"Weapons Grade" is a misnomer, Any Uranium can be used to build a bomb, it just requires a lot more U-235 to do it. At 20% enrichment it would need about 400 kg of U-235 to achieve critical mass.

antikristuseke · 08-24-10, 10:14 AM

True that, but it is pretty difficult to weaponize low enriched uranium, due to the bulk and weight. Makes delivery a lot more difficult

Aramike · 08-24-10, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

True that, but it is pretty difficult to weaponize low enriched uranium, due to the bulk and weight. Makes delivery a lot more difficult

Would you put it past Iran?

I wouldn't.

08-22-10, 01:14 PM	#16
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	maybe no "big deal" but the fact, is that there is always a potential security risk to gain control over their need of access to material,and it has nothing to do with the construction of power plants, although there are suspicions that the country an interest that there should be weapons-related, they have more plants not only this.. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-22-10, 04:13 PM	#18
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	But they could build a bomb with just the U-235 like Fat Man (The Hiroshima Bomb) and Thin Man type devices. This reactor doesn't matter either way. __________________

08-23-10, 06:46 PM	#23
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Indeed, Dmitry Medvedev, but if it really needed more "balls", to have the former KGB officer Vladimir Putin more of a say .. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-24-10, 07:53 AM	#26
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	According to what I read, Iran already has enough material to build 2 nuclear devices, but to build them, they would have to take certain unmistakable steps, like kicking out the inspectors, which would alert everyone to what they are doing. Let's not forget that most governements in Europe, America and even the middle east do not want Iran to possess nuclear weapons. The 2003 invasion of Iraq upset the balance of power by taking out a Sunni regime and replacing it by a Shiite government. This allowed Iran to extend it's influence into Iraq. This worries the other regimes in the region, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia which have a Sunni majority. Saudi Arabia is especially worried because it has a restless Shiite minority in its eastern provinces. Saudi Arabia, since 1948, was one of the most hard line states in its opposition to Israel. Yet, over the past few years, they have held direct but discreet talks with the Israeli governemnt and recently gave the IAF permission to overfly their territory, presumably if it becomes necessary for Israel to attack Iran. The Saudis now realize that Iran is a greater threat than Israel, which is wonderfully ironic. As usual, the ROW is quite willing to let Israel do the dirty work when it suits their national interest. Just compare the muted response of all governments, including Arab states in the region, when Israel attacked the Syrian reactor in 2007 to the outrage over the botched flotilla raid earlier this year. __________________

08-23-10, 05:35 PM	#20
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,124 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Russia can't really be trusted to do the right thing, esp with Putin in charge.

08-24-10, 10:14 AM	#29
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	True that, but it is pretty difficult to weaponize low enriched uranium, due to the bulk and weight. Makes delivery a lot more difficult