Religious Poll

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I also do the same as you, but I pay homage to all my gods.

Never meant to imply that I didn't.

To me it is really all a matter of trying to be more conscious than less so, of recognizing that my self is far bigger than my ego, that nothing human is alien to it, and that to deny this is the worst form of hubris. Of not pushing into shadow and denying those possibilities and proclivities I would prefer not to acknowledge as part and parcel of who I could be or might have been, because I know all too well that the beast you befriend is a powerful ally, while the one you drive from your midst will someday return to burn your village.

wait, what do you believe in frau?

I think people believe what they need to believe, and I'm no different. In most cases the need is unconscious, because most of what we are and what motivates us is unconscious. What we don't know is always far greater than what we do know, and this includes what we know about ourselves.

For instance, IMO people believe in God or a god or gods or whatever, because something inside them requires the existence of whatever it is they believe in. And naturally they are attracted to whatever validates and supports that belief. Why do they need to believe it? I suppose everybody needs to believe in something, and "I'll have another cookie" isn't enough for everyone.

(I choose to believe in the Loch Ness Monster because it amuses me to do so. Why does it amuse me? Your guess is as good as mine. I suspect it's because a world where prehistoric aquatic critters are not still lurking about in Scotland would seem just a little less fun to live in.)

This is why I think it's so important not only to question what we believe, but WHY we believe it. If it is something we have not learned from our own experience, or have no empirical evidence for, why do we continue to believe it? What need does it fulfill, what behavior does it justify, what potential reality does it shield us from facing? If it is something that can be neither proved or disproved, why do we opt to believe or disbelieve, and based on what criteria?

There are many things which I see become issues of contention among others, in which I neither believe or disbelieve because to me it makes no difference one way or the other.

And there is a difference to believing and knowing. I do not "believe" that hot oil will burn if it splatters on my skin. I know that it will, because it has happened and I have experienced the results.

OTOH, someone else might say, I got hot oil on my skin and it didn't burn at all. Well, then what I know to be true for me is not true for them. Fair enough. But I will not pour hot oil on my hands based on their experience, nor will I pour hot oil on them to try and prove them wrong. If, however, they start going around pouring hot oil on other people, we are going to have a problem, no matter how much they try to justify it by saying that what is true for them must also be true for everybody else.

Have I had religious experiences? Absolutely, yes. Have I "seen" things that can only be seen with the heart, and never with the eyes? Oh yes. Were they hallucinations, or real? Well of course they were real. Even a hallucination is real. A dream is real. The experience of having one or the other is most definitely real. What matters to me is: did it produce anything of value? Am I happier, more content, more at peace with myself and others, more patient, less fearful? Oh yes.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I think frau has belief of the silent and deep kind

I don't think I've found God, but I may have seen where gods come from. - Terry Pratchett

Silent running .
Deep water.

Well, it's definitely deep something.