Medals awarded do not make sense

tzimisce · 08-09-10, 06:20 AM

Hey all, I have been reading these forums for a while, trying to figure out sh4. This game definitely has one of the toughest learning curves out there.

Anyway, here is what I don't understand... and please bear with me for the backstory. I have completed tutorials just fine. I could even hit some boats at maximum torpedo ranges.

Now, I'm in S-38 boat and I can't seem to hit anything at all. So, I got a merchant search and destroy mission and one of the merchants passed me so close that it almost rammed me... I fired off torpedoes and I still managed to miss. What the hell? I immediately raged, surfaced and bombarded him with the wrath of 10,000 Poseidons. When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment.

Pretty much the same thing happened with 2 other groups of merchant ships. I missed every time, then raged, sunk them with cannons and brutally executed the surviving sailors.

Now this is another important piece of info: I never even got hit once by the enemy.

When I ended my patrol I got a purple heart for myself and 2 to distribute among the crew. "Wounded Medal" or something like that. Looked like a purple heart to me. I don't understand this at all. I was expecting the commanding officers to be shocked and appalled by my executions yet I got medals for being wounded.

Why on earth would I get a Wounded medal? Nobody in the crew got hurt, not even a scratch on the boat. What gives? Thanks for your time, fellas.

sergei · 08-09-10, 06:49 AM

Welcome aboard tzimisce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzimisce

Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzimisce

and brutally executed the surviving sailors.

I know it's only a game, but Jeez, that's a bit much isn't it?

Major Johnson · 08-09-10, 07:51 AM

Your apparant bloodthirst aside............what torpedos are you carrying?? Is it the Mark 14s?? If so and your not setting them to run shallow, they could be running underneath your targets and that's what happened in the first two years or so of the war until the problem got corrected. With Mark 14s I always set them at the shallowest setting, and switch them to contact only, as the influence option sometimes makes them explode prematurely.

As for the medals, I'm as clueless as you are. I get issued medals at the end of a patrol, but I have no clue as who to give them to or why. Like you said the learning curve for the game is rather steep, and really doesn't have to be.

thor headsplitter · 08-10-10, 01:05 AM

Make sure you open the tube doors prior to firing on the tubes you want to use using the Q key. Try to shoot from 1000 yds/m at an approximate AOB of 90 degrees. If you don't open the doors the game will but it takes a few seconds and you will probably miss aft of the target. The medal system is all messed up so just take what they give you and give medals to the crew. I usually give to officers first then chiefs then everybody else.

TwistedFemur · 08-10-10, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzimisce

Why on earth would I get a Wounded medal? Nobody in the crew got hurt, not even a scratch on the boat. What gives? Thanks for your time, fellas.

They gave you the purple heart for your wounded ego

WernherVonTrapp · 08-10-10, 07:15 AM

I believe S-38 (SS-143) is one of the old pigboats. I haven't played any of those subs yet but, I think the default load is the Mk-10s. Those torps aren't able to turn like the Mark-14s and basically just travel in a straight line, though I'm not sure if that matters with a target-lock in game. Are you opening the tube doors before firing ("Q" key)?
As far as the Purple Heart goes, that's probably for just having to endure your patrols in a pigboat. Probably a bedbug bite or something.

"When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment."

Now, you're talkin'. Welcome to the PTO, tzimisce.

ancient46 · 08-10-10, 03:47 PM

Were you beyond the minimum arming distance for the torpedo? The Mark 10 does not arm until it has run for 220 meters(240 yards) in the stock game.

Rockin Robbins · 08-11-10, 01:12 AM

Hey man, medals never make any sense. All the guys who deserve 'em are dead. They get passed out to us living stiffs just to check off another task in the desk jockey's list. What good is it to worry about it. We live or die no matter what medals are on our chest. Maybe they might be worth something in Honolulu between cruises to impress the dames.

tzimisce · 08-11-10, 09:40 PM

Lol, I appreciate the responses.

Yeah, I'm definitely opening the tubes before firing. I even come to a full stop before I do so. I set the torpedo depth to as shallow as possible... the boat in front of me was less than 2000 yards away going close to 90 degrees yet I still managed to miss it and somehow hit a destroyer as a stray.

Ok, here are a few more questions I had:

1) What do WO and SD stand for? What are the differences between radio contact, WO contact and SD contact? As far as I know my S-boat only has a hydrophone.

2) Is there a way I can set the torpedos to run straight, without inputting any data to TDC? Sometimes I only have time to eyeball it if I'm really close to the target.

3) Does the depth that you are at have any gameplay significance at all? Is there any point going below 60 feet or so? No ship can ram you.

4) How in the world do the destroyers keep finding me? As far as I have gathered, hydrophones listen for noise of the fin blades / motor. My boat was stopped and deep under the sea. Yet the destroyer somehow distinguished me from the rest of the environment and sunk me. How the hell did he know that I wasn't some rock formation or a dead whale?

Is there any way to hide from the all-powerful magical hydrophone?

5) How would one go on about upgrading to a better boat? I like starting off with the crappiest ones in the olden RPG fashion, haha. Should I just go for the one I want right off the bat?

6) Where can I find more information about the meaning of alternative dashboard stuff? What I mean is that you can switch between "1/3, 2/3, Standard / Full" speedometer and "Speed in Knots" speedometer. What is the difference in switching between the last depth-meter thingy? One shows higher number for some reason. I'm also a bit confused on why the Left/Right rudder controls go up to 35. I can't think of any way how it can add up to 360 lol.

Thanks for the warm welcome, friends.

WernherVonTrapp · 08-12-10, 05:47 AM

As far as I know, WO is your sonar and SD is your air search radar. Your SD radar doesn't have a PPI (Planned Position Indicator) so you'll only hear the crewmen call out the single contacts. You won't be able to actually use the radar screen to view them. That's probably why you don't realize that you have air search radar.
As far as setting torpedoes to run straight, just don't enter the info into the TDC or, if you're on auto target, keep your periscope off the target, gyro angle 0° and fire (not sure why you'd want to do that though). Nevertheless, if the target is at 0° and auto target is on, just fire.
As far as you describe, getting detected all the time, that might be why you're missing w/torpedoes. They're detecting your presence and the target begins to zigzag. When you sound the General Quarters, your damage control team automatically activates, if you don't deactivate them before engaging Silent Running, they remain at their stations and could potentially create noise for the DDs to pick up on. When I was playing Stock, on more than one occasion, I found myself being stalked by DDs after forgetting to deactivate my DC team. As soon as I deactivated them, they DDs seemed to give up. It could be just a coincidence but, I still adhere to that rule as a precaution. It certainly can't hurt to deactivate them if no repairs are required.
There is a great significance to going deep, especially if you go below the thermocline (Thermal Layer). That makes your sub harder to pinpoint by the DDs. The warmer water tends to bend and diffuse the sound of your sub.
As far as lying still and quiet, DDs use two types of sonar detection, passive and active. Passive listens for any sounds (screws, bubbles, crewmen working

, etc.), Active uses ASDIC (or sound pulses known as pinging) which sends out a sound and waits for the echo to bounce back off of your sub. If you're using the external cam, you may not hear the ping when it hits you. You have to keep your sub bladed to present the smallest possible sound cross-section that you can. That is, if the DD is approaching from your side, your boat is presenting it's entire broadside as a sound signature. If he's approaching from your front, your boat is bladed to present the smallest portion of it's size as a sound signature.
Remember, just because they're pinging you, doesn't mean they know exactly where you are. When the pinging speeds up, they're closing in on your exact position.
New boats will be offered to you as the game progresses and commensurate with your performance at sea. As far as "alternative dashboard stuff", it's all here in the forum.
You can find answers to these questions and more, at the link below:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107783

razark · 08-12-10, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzimisce

What is the difference in switching between the last depth-meter thingy? One shows higher number for some reason.

One is the shallow depth gauge, it allows finer control of depth, from surfaced to 165 feet. The other is the not so shallow depth gauge, it allows you to go deeper than the shallow depth gauge (up to 450 feet, I believe), but without as fine a control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzimisce

I'm also a bit confused on why the Left/Right rudder controls go up to 35. I can't think of any way how it can add up to 360 lol.

You can only move your rudder so far. If you moved the rudder 360 degrees, you would have turned the rudder in a circle, and it would be the same as having 0 degree rudder. It doesn't control how far you turn, it controls how fast you turn.

Stealhead · 08-12-10, 04:04 PM

I find the use of thermal layers to be very useful myself I am not sure that are as much of a factor in the stock game as they are in TMO but you can still use them.

Don't forget that at very close range 3,000yds or less lookouts can possibly spot your periscope(at least they do in TMO) so keep that sucker under water until you are looking through it you don't have to fully retract it just dip it under the waves.Also I fire my fish then I began my escape I don't stick around and watch the boat sink in the scope most times I like the extra few minutes gained to sneak away.

If you are having trouble you can always start a career later in the war and gain access to a better boat.Actually your rank does not make much difference at the start you can select any sub you want form the start so long as that sub is at the base you have selected and is available during the date you selected. When I started playing vanilla SH4 I played with a career in 1943 a Gato class to get the hang of the game then I went with an earlier sub a Porpoise class before surface radar was available. Early war is much harder because you lack any surface radar to aid you in attack on convoys you dont get that 20 or so mile advantage to get into a good spot.The ultimate challenge is to play an early war career in an old S-Boat.

Of course adding a mod is another option as they make the game even more fun/challeging.Personally I recommend trying one of the mega mods like TMO or RFB sooner rather than later they just add that much to the game.

WernherVonTrapp · 08-12-10, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

One is the shallow depth gauge, it allows finer control of depth, from surfaced to 165 feet. The other is the not so shallow depth gauge, it allows you to go deeper than the shallow depth gauge (up to 450 feet, I believe), but without as fine a control.

You can only move your rudder so far. If you moved the rudder 360 degrees, you would have turned the rudder in a circle, and it would be the same as having 0 degree rudder. It doesn't control how far you turn, it controls how fast you turn.

Thanks for covering those last points for me, razark. I wasn't trying to be rude. My typing skills are horrendous. It takes me sooo long just to type a few sentences and, in all honesty, I was just too tired and frustrated to continue, so I posted a link instead. If you toss a handful of birdseed onto the keyboard, even a pigeon will do a better job of typing than I can.

NorthBeach · 08-12-10, 08:50 PM

" If you toss a handful of birdseed onto the keyboard, even a pigeon will do a better job of typing than I can"

tzimisce · 08-13-10, 08:43 PM

Hey,

Just wanted to thank you all for the help. All this stuff makes a lot more sense now.

Had no idea about the thermal layer and what its use was. It's a lifesaver. Can't believe I could evade 5 destroyers.

Had the command of an old clunker S-boat and just fired off all torpedoes in 1 heavy cruiser. 2 missed, 1 hit and sunk the cruiser and the other 1 went past and hit a tiny passenger boat.

Hopefully I will get re-assigned before my rusty pan gets me killed.

08-09-10, 06:20 AM	#1
tzimisce Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Medals awarded do not make sense Hey all, I have been reading these forums for a while, trying to figure out sh4. This game definitely has one of the toughest learning curves out there. Anyway, here is what I don't understand... and please bear with me for the backstory. I have completed tutorials just fine. I could even hit some boats at maximum torpedo ranges. Now, I'm in S-38 boat and I can't seem to hit anything at all. So, I got a merchant search and destroy mission and one of the merchants passed me so close that it almost rammed me... I fired off torpedoes and I still managed to miss. What the hell? I immediately raged, surfaced and bombarded him with the wrath of 10,000 Poseidons. When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment. Pretty much the same thing happened with 2 other groups of merchant ships. I missed every time, then raged, sunk them with cannons and brutally executed the surviving sailors. Now this is another important piece of info: I never even got hit once by the enemy. When I ended my patrol I got a purple heart for myself and 2 to distribute among the crew. "Wounded Medal" or something like that. Looked like a purple heart to me. I don't understand this at all. I was expecting the commanding officers to be shocked and appalled by my executions yet I got medals for being wounded. Why on earth would I get a Wounded medal? Nobody in the crew got hurt, not even a scratch on the boat. What gives? Thanks for your time, fellas.

08-09-10, 07:51 AM	#3
Major Johnson Frogman Join Date: May 2007 Location: Jeresey Shore USA Posts: 288 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Your apparant bloodthirst aside............what torpedos are you carrying?? Is it the Mark 14s?? If so and your not setting them to run shallow, they could be running underneath your targets and that's what happened in the first two years or so of the war until the problem got corrected. With Mark 14s I always set them at the shallowest setting, and switch them to contact only, as the influence option sometimes makes them explode prematurely. As for the medals, I'm as clueless as you are. I get issued medals at the end of a patrol, but I have no clue as who to give them to or why. Like you said the learning curve for the game is rather steep, and really doesn't have to be. __________________ MJ! ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 AMD FX8350 8 Core 4.0 Ghz CPU GeForce GTX 560 Ti PCIx Video Card 8 GB Corsair Vengence RAM Rosewill 850W Power Supply

08-10-10, 01:05 AM	#4
thor headsplitter Watch Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 18 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	torps Make sure you open the tube doors prior to firing on the tubes you want to use using the Q key. Try to shoot from 1000 yds/m at an approximate AOB of 90 degrees. If you don't open the doors the game will but it takes a few seconds and you will probably miss aft of the target. The medal system is all messed up so just take what they give you and give medals to the crew. I usually give to officers first then chiefs then everybody else.

08-10-10, 07:15 AM	#6
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I believe S-38 (SS-143) is one of the old pigboats. I haven't played any of those subs yet but, I think the default load is the Mk-10s. Those torps aren't able to turn like the Mark-14s and basically just travel in a straight line, though I'm not sure if that matters with a target-lock in game. Are you opening the tube doors before firing ("Q" key)? As far as the Purple Heart goes, that's probably for just having to endure your patrols in a pigboat. Probably a bedbug bite or something. "When the enemy boats sunk I looked for the tiny survivor boats, tracked them all down, loaded up my gun with explosive ammo and turned them all into shredded beef. Their screams of pain still comfort me to this moment." Now, you're talkin'. Welcome to the PTO, tzimisce. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

08-11-10, 01:12 AM	#8
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Hey man, medals never make any sense. All the guys who deserve 'em are dead. They get passed out to us living stiffs just to check off another task in the desk jockey's list. What good is it to worry about it. We live or die no matter what medals are on our chest. Maybe they might be worth something in Honolulu between cruises to impress the dames. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-10-10, 03:47 PM	#7
ancient46 Officer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 239 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 1	Were you beyond the minimum arming distance for the torpedo? The Mark 10 does not arm until it has run for 220 meters(240 yards) in the stock game.

08-11-10, 09:40 PM	#9
tzimisce Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Lol, I appreciate the responses. Yeah, I'm definitely opening the tubes before firing. I even come to a full stop before I do so. I set the torpedo depth to as shallow as possible... the boat in front of me was less than 2000 yards away going close to 90 degrees yet I still managed to miss it and somehow hit a destroyer as a stray. Ok, here are a few more questions I had: 1) What do WO and SD stand for? What are the differences between radio contact, WO contact and SD contact? As far as I know my S-boat only has a hydrophone. 2) Is there a way I can set the torpedos to run straight, without inputting any data to TDC? Sometimes I only have time to eyeball it if I'm really close to the target. 3) Does the depth that you are at have any gameplay significance at all? Is there any point going below 60 feet or so? No ship can ram you. 4) How in the world do the destroyers keep finding me? As far as I have gathered, hydrophones listen for noise of the fin blades / motor. My boat was stopped and deep under the sea. Yet the destroyer somehow distinguished me from the rest of the environment and sunk me. How the hell did he know that I wasn't some rock formation or a dead whale? Is there any way to hide from the all-powerful magical hydrophone? 5) How would one go on about upgrading to a better boat? I like starting off with the crappiest ones in the olden RPG fashion, haha. Should I just go for the one I want right off the bat? 6) Where can I find more information about the meaning of alternative dashboard stuff? What I mean is that you can switch between "1/3, 2/3, Standard / Full" speedometer and "Speed in Knots" speedometer. What is the difference in switching between the last depth-meter thingy? One shows higher number for some reason. I'm also a bit confused on why the Left/Right rudder controls go up to 35. I can't think of any way how it can add up to 360 lol. Thanks for the warm welcome, friends.

08-12-10, 05:47 AM	#10
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	As far as I know, WO is your sonar and SD is your air search radar. Your SD radar doesn't have a PPI (Planned Position Indicator) so you'll only hear the crewmen call out the single contacts. You won't be able to actually use the radar screen to view them. That's probably why you don't realize that you have air search radar. As far as setting torpedoes to run straight, just don't enter the info into the TDC or, if you're on auto target, keep your periscope off the target, gyro angle 0° and fire (not sure why you'd want to do that though). Nevertheless, if the target is at 0° and auto target is on, just fire. As far as you describe, getting detected all the time, that might be why you're missing w/torpedoes. They're detecting your presence and the target begins to zigzag. When you sound the General Quarters, your damage control team automatically activates, if you don't deactivate them before engaging Silent Running, they remain at their stations and could potentially create noise for the DDs to pick up on. When I was playing Stock, on more than one occasion, I found myself being stalked by DDs after forgetting to deactivate my DC team. As soon as I deactivated them, they DDs seemed to give up. It could be just a coincidence but, I still adhere to that rule as a precaution. It certainly can't hurt to deactivate them if no repairs are required. There is a great significance to going deep, especially if you go below the thermocline (Thermal Layer). That makes your sub harder to pinpoint by the DDs. The warmer water tends to bend and diffuse the sound of your sub. As far as lying still and quiet, DDs use two types of sonar detection, passive and active. Passive listens for any sounds (screws, bubbles, crewmen working, etc.), Active uses ASDIC (or sound pulses known as pinging) which sends out a sound and waits for the echo to bounce back off of your sub. If you're using the external cam, you may not hear the ping when it hits you. You have to keep your sub bladed to present the smallest possible sound cross-section that you can. That is, if the DD is approaching from your side, your boat is presenting it's entire broadside as a sound signature. If he's approaching from your front, your boat is bladed to present the smallest portion of it's size as a sound signature. Remember, just because they're pinging you, doesn't mean they know exactly where you are. When the pinging speeds up, they're closing in on your exact position. New boats will be offered to you as the game progresses and commensurate with your performance at sea. As far as "alternative dashboard stuff", it's all here in the forum. You can find answers to these questions and more, at the link below: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107783 __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

08-12-10, 04:04 PM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I find the use of thermal layers to be very useful myself I am not sure that are as much of a factor in the stock game as they are in TMO but you can still use them. Don't forget that at very close range 3,000yds or less lookouts can possibly spot your periscope(at least they do in TMO) so keep that sucker under water until you are looking through it you don't have to fully retract it just dip it under the waves.Also I fire my fish then I began my escape I don't stick around and watch the boat sink in the scope most times I like the extra few minutes gained to sneak away. If you are having trouble you can always start a career later in the war and gain access to a better boat.Actually your rank does not make much difference at the start you can select any sub you want form the start so long as that sub is at the base you have selected and is available during the date you selected. When I started playing vanilla SH4 I played with a career in 1943 a Gato class to get the hang of the game then I went with an earlier sub a Porpoise class before surface radar was available. Early war is much harder because you lack any surface radar to aid you in attack on convoys you dont get that 20 or so mile advantage to get into a good spot.The ultimate challenge is to play an early war career in an old S-Boat. Of course adding a mod is another option as they make the game even more fun/challeging.Personally I recommend trying one of the mega mods like TMO or RFB sooner rather than later they just add that much to the game. Last edited by Stealhead; 08-12-10 at 04:16 PM.

08-12-10, 08:50 PM	#14
NorthBeach Torpedoman Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 112 Downloads: 216 Uploads: 0	" If you toss a handful of birdseed onto the keyboard, even a pigeon will do a better job of typing than I can"

08-13-10, 08:43 PM	#15
tzimisce Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hey, Just wanted to thank you all for the help. All this stuff makes a lot more sense now. Had no idea about the thermal layer and what its use was. It's a lifesaver. Can't believe I could evade 5 destroyers. Had the command of an old clunker S-boat and just fired off all torpedoes in 1 heavy cruiser. 2 missed, 1 hit and sunk the cruiser and the other 1 went past and hit a tiny passenger boat. Hopefully I will get re-assigned before my rusty pan gets me killed.