2010 Formula 1 Championship

Dowly · 07-26-10, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Your girlfriend Dowly?

Was, then I learned that squirrels don't have "storage bags".

Jimbuna · 07-26-10, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Was, then I learned that squirrels don't have "storage bags".

Nowhere to hide the evidence then

Flaxpants · 07-27-10, 04:54 AM

I think this whole banning of team orders is problematic. First of all, I agree that Ferrari should be punished- they broke the rules as they stand, and I agree that someone winning a race, any race, by merit of being 'let through' makes somewhat of a mockery of the victory. Massa should have won the race. However, I fail to see how you can abolish 'team orders' in Formula 1, it is not that kind of environment. When you look at the clinical, rigid commercial environment that these teams operate in, with huge budgets of other peoples money, you can hardly imagine them saying to their drivers- "right, she's all set, just get out there and leather the opposition, including your team mate". It is inevitable that they will have a more measured, and arguably more conservative approach to racing strategy.
Unfortunately, Sunday was a perfect example of how the money has compromised the racing.
What galled me most about it was the circumstances under which it happened. If for example Vettel had been quicker and was closing down the Ferraris fast enough to pass both of them and win the race, then I would have probably given the same team order as they did to allow Alonso a chance to get away, to hang onto any chance of victory for the team. What happened on Sunday however, felt more like someone stealing a kids christmas present from them and then handing it to the spoiled brat who already has everything.
I don't know what the answer is to this one. The team is a team, the team-mates are generally arch enemies. How do you resolve that one?

TarJak · 07-28-10, 01:40 AM

I agree that it is is very difficult to police because depending on circumstances teams may compromise the "2nd" driver's performances somehow outside of the blatant flouting of the rules by Ferrari.

That said I don't have a problem with team orders being banned as like any rule the teams will find their own ways of bending them which is part of the challenge for them.

TBH I like what I see in the battle between Webber and Vettel because we are seeing a "2nd" driver giving the team the finger and doing his best to win rather that complacently sitting back and letting the other driver through. IMHO that should be encouraged and if there are ways of doing that through penalties for team orders then I'm all for it. The whole point is seeing racing, not a bloody procession in the order that team bosses dictate.

Jimbuna · 07-29-10, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

I agree that it is is very difficult to police because depending on circumstances teams may compromise the "2nd" driver's performances somehow outside of the blatant flouting of the rules by Ferrari.

That said I don't have a problem with team orders being banned as like any rule the teams will find their own ways of bending them which is part of the challenge for them.

TBH I like what I see in the battle between Webber and Vettel because we are seeing a "2nd" driver giving the team the finger and doing his best to win rather that complacently sitting back and letting the other driver through. IMHO that should be encouraged and if there are ways of doing that through penalties for team orders then I'm all for it. The whole point is seeing racing, not a bloody procession in the order that team bosses dictate.

Agreed

Konovalov · 07-29-10, 12:07 PM

As per subject head over to the thread here. Had a brillaint time and would totally recommend to any F1 fan.

Flaxpants · 07-30-10, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

TBH I like what I see in the battle between Webber and Vettel because we are seeing a "2nd" driver giving the team the finger and doing his best to win rather that complacently sitting back and letting the other driver through. IMHO that should be encouraged and if there are ways of doing that through penalties for team orders then I'm all for it. The whole point is seeing racing, not a bloody procession in the order that team bosses dictate.

Agree with you on that one. I wonder what would of happened if the roles had been reversed- Massa catching Alonso? Another team order for Massa to hold position? How well would that have gone down with the fans? I'll bet not as bad as what did happen, though the net result on the racing would have been the same.

Incidentally, for anyone interested, I used to attend the British GP as a kid in the 70's, and I made a point of collecting autographs at the time. Recently my father discovered these old books in his attic, all mint condition- I have 2 autograph books and one signed programme from the Graham Hill International Trophy, all from between '76 and '79. Here's a list of who I've got (in no particular order):
Mario Andretti; Carlos Reutemann; John Watson; James Hunt; Brett Lunger; Vittorio Brambilla; Jean-Pierre Jarier; Chris Amon; Jackie Ickx; Patrick Gaillard; Rupert Keegan; JP Jabouille; Rene Arnoux; Alan Jones; Clay Regazzoni; Jaques Laffite; Niki Lauda; Jochen Mass; Patrick Neve; Nelson Piquet (Sr); Jody Scheckter; Jackie Stewart; Arturo Merzario (he used to be sponsored by a coffin manufacturer!!); Hans Stuck; And all on one page, signed at the same time- Stirling Moss, Jack Brabham & Roy Salvadori.
I tried to get a valuation on these a couple of months back- Bonhams were interested in auctioning them at this years Goodwood festival of speed. According to them, the lot are currently worth around 800 UK- I'm going to hang onto them for a few more years.

XabbaRus · 07-30-10, 04:41 PM

That is something I would never get rid of. Hang on to them.

Any chance you could scan a page and post?

Flaxpants · 08-02-10, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

That is something I would never get rid of. Hang on to them.

Any chance you could scan a page and post?

Sent you a pm XabbaRus with a link for an ftp where I have the lot photographed in pdf format. If anyone else wants a look then please pm me.

F

Konovalov · 07-31-10, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaxpants

I have 2 autograph books and one signed programme from the Graham Hill International Trophy, all from between '76 and '79. Here's a list of who I've got (in no particular order):
Mario Andretti; Carlos Reutemann; John Watson; James Hunt; Brett Lunger; Vittorio Brambilla; Jean-Pierre Jarier; Chris Amon; Jackie Ickx; Patrick Gaillard; Rupert Keegan; JP Jabouille; Rene Arnoux; Alan Jones; Clay Regazzoni; Jaques Laffite; Niki Lauda; Jochen Mass; Patrick Neve; Nelson Piquet (Sr); Jody Scheckter; Jackie Stewart; Arturo Merzario (he used to be sponsored by a coffin manufacturer!!); Hans Stuck; And all on one page, signed at the same time- Stirling Moss, Jack Brabham & Roy Salvadori.

Wow. Definately hold on to them.

Can Alonso spoil the RBR party on Sunday? Again it's all going to come down to the long run into turn 1 on Sunday. If not then it will be a RBR 1 2 procession.

07-29-10, 12:07 PM	#6
Konovalov Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: High Wycombe, Bucks, UK Posts: 2,811 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Head over to my Williams F1 museum tour As per subject head over to the thread here. Had a brillaint time and would totally recommend to any F1 fan. __________________ "In a Christian context, sexuality is traditionally seen as a consequence of the Fall, but for Muslims, it is an anticipation of paradise. So I can say, I think, that I was validly converted to Islam by a teenage French Jewish nudist." Sheikh Abdul-Hakim Murad (Timothy Winter)

07-30-10, 04:41 PM	#8
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	That is something I would never get rid of. Hang on to them. Any chance you could scan a page and post? __________________

07-27-10, 04:54 AM	#3
Flaxpants Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Koh Samui, Thailand Posts: 1,196 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	I think this whole banning of team orders is problematic. First of all, I agree that Ferrari should be punished- they broke the rules as they stand, and I agree that someone winning a race, any race, by merit of being 'let through' makes somewhat of a mockery of the victory. Massa should have won the race. However, I fail to see how you can abolish 'team orders' in Formula 1, it is not that kind of environment. When you look at the clinical, rigid commercial environment that these teams operate in, with huge budgets of other peoples money, you can hardly imagine them saying to their drivers- "right, she's all set, just get out there and leather the opposition, including your team mate". It is inevitable that they will have a more measured, and arguably more conservative approach to racing strategy. Unfortunately, Sunday was a perfect example of how the money has compromised the racing. What galled me most about it was the circumstances under which it happened. If for example Vettel had been quicker and was closing down the Ferraris fast enough to pass both of them and win the race, then I would have probably given the same team order as they did to allow Alonso a chance to get away, to hang onto any chance of victory for the team. What happened on Sunday however, felt more like someone stealing a kids christmas present from them and then handing it to the spoiled brat who already has everything. I don't know what the answer is to this one. The team is a team, the team-mates are generally arch enemies. How do you resolve that one?

07-28-10, 01:40 AM	#4
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	I agree that it is is very difficult to police because depending on circumstances teams may compromise the "2nd" driver's performances somehow outside of the blatant flouting of the rules by Ferrari. That said I don't have a problem with team orders being banned as like any rule the teams will find their own ways of bending them which is part of the challenge for them. TBH I like what I see in the battle between Webber and Vettel because we are seeing a "2nd" driver giving the team the finger and doing his best to win rather that complacently sitting back and letting the other driver through. IMHO that should be encouraged and if there are ways of doing that through penalties for team orders then I'm all for it. The whole point is seeing racing, not a bloody procession in the order that team bosses dictate.