[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[rascal101]

Do you think you could do anything to tweak the Aircraft AI - or have you already done so - at the moment I keep getting buzzed by aircraft but they never attack - which surely isnt right - ok some will be spotters but some shold be attacking - or does this become more of a hazard later in the war - I'm playing Oct 1939 at the moment

Also

I have a problem with the game CTD or just freezing - there is no apparent reason or influence - sometimes it occurs close to land and some times it doesnt - I have listed my mods below - I used to think it was the new Enviro mod, but now not so sure - I wonder if its to do with the scale of the map view plus the speed you have set the game - it never crashes in 3d view, only map view and usually when I have time compression over 2024

Any ideas - here's my list of mods - clashes are highlighted in RED

A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
AilBubbles 1.0
BRF 1.3 full
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Goodbye Pac-Man v1.01
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.0
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Haramirs Escorts Self Awareness Mod 1.1
Environment 3.0 MOD
MoraleMod
Old Style Explosions V1.1
R7 HiRes SteelVikings Optics
Shadow Improvement Mod
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
The Elite Campaign 1.1
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
Killer AI V1.02
Reboot's Water Drips 1.1
MRP 1.3+OPCF
Dooms Decks for VIIC 1.2
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
EngineSoundsImproved_v1.0
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
IRAI_0_0_11_ByTheDarkWraith

[Stormfly]

same problem here, Mediterranian 1941, different kinds of planes, but no one will react or attack, they seam friendly

[SteelViking]

Well, for the first time in about 2 months, I decided to actually play SH5 instead of working on it. So I loaded up all my favorite mods, and a few new ones and headed out on a new campaign. A few hours later, I had not actually found any convoys, but I picked up what seemed like a hunter killer group. I decided to go ahead and attack it just to see how the AI is now that you have worked on it. So, here is my experience:

It was a group of 6 DDs, it was nearing dusk so I sneaked up pretty close to them(had no problems with overly sensitive visual detection), and went to periscope depth. Got a good solution on the closer middle DD and fired a spread of 3 T1s just to make sure I got a hit since I figured they might dodge them. Hit and got a confirmed kill and started diving. They immediately headed my direction, which I would expect since they would have seen the torp trail. I then spent, I don't know how long, trying every evasive maneuver I could, going all the way down to 200m in my VIIa but I was not able to shake them at all. They stayed directly on top of me, however, I barely ever heard a sonar ping(I mean maybe 4 pings the whole time) I lost count of how many dcs exploded, but I never took one bit of damage.

So, I am kind of confused. Why so little sonar use? I was on silent running, so they would have had to use sonar to know where I was, but they were acting like they could just hear me. Also, I really think the blast radius of the dcs needs to be increased. I might try setting them to the figures I posted yesterday, and trying it out.

Don't get me wrong, they are obviously way smarter than stock, which I am very happy about. But, it seems that they are omniscient when it comes to keeping in contact with you(perhaps the thermal layer could be increased).

[Stormfly]

say you just started the campaign, so it was 1939 or ? ...i would expect a very good chance to evade them and sneak away.

[TheDarkWraith]

also the sonar beam is an arc horizontally and vertically so if the escorts were close to you and you were at >=200m depth then you were out of the sonar beam and thus no pinging.

[The General]

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[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

say you just started the campaign, so it was 1939 or ? ...i would expect a very good chance to evade them and sneak away.

That's what I thought should have happened, but nope they stayed glued to me.

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

also the sonar beam is an arc horizontally and vertically so if the escorts were close to you and you were at >=200m depth then you were out of the sonar beam and thus no pinging.

Right, so how in the world did they know exactly where I was. I was on silent running, on ahead slow, and 200m down, how could they have heard me. Did you turn up the sensitivity of their hydrophones?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

so how in the world did they know exactly where I was. I was on silent running, on ahead slow, and 200m down, how could they have heard me. Did you turn up the sensitivity of their hydrophones?

yes, their hydrophones are sensitive. Did you have the graphic displayed on the TAI showing their current hydrophone range? Was it overlayed on your current position?
I haven't disabled the thermal layer but maybe it needs to be tweaked?
Remember the mod is still a WIP so their is more tweaking to do if necessary

[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

yes, their hydrophones are sensitive. Did you have the graphic displayed on the TAI showing their current hydrophone range? Was it overlayed on your current position?
I haven't disabled the thermal layer but maybe it needs to be tweaked?
Remember the mod is still a WIP so their is more tweaking to do if necessary

Oh, I don't blame you or anything, I know it is still WIP. The reason I posted this experience was to help you nail down the details.

Yes, at one point I did check the TAI(I hate that thing but sometimes I cheat and look). I was covered by the pacmans, but I was sure that I must still be able to evade detection that early in the war. If I would have shut my engines down, I would have gone too deep(7a and its stinking depth keeping problems). Yeah, I think adjusting the thermal layer to have a heavier effect could do the trick.

[TheDarkWraith]

there is another problem with the campaign in SH5 that's compounding the problem SteelViking encountered - in the early years there are many Veteran units. I would think that these would be more like competent units. This mod relies on the unit's crew rating for many of it's determinations.

[Vanilla]

I doubt that even a Veteran or Elite destroyer would hear a sub running silent (15 rpm of E-machine, that is the propeller rotates only once every four seconds) and below 200m through their passive hydrophones. Particularly if we consider noise of the destroyer itself, turbulence they've created speeding around, recent DC blasts bubbles waves and ripples on the surface etc. I guess even modern destroyer, would have difficulties keeping contact.
And since the sub would be impossible to hear they have to ping to keep the contact - where SteelViking reported they didn't, that is unrealistic.

My recent experience with HK group: 1939, on clear sunny day at about 1400 a TF was reported by the lookouts. I ordered ahead flank and steered a intercept course as I could only see smokes and thought at first that it could be a BB or CA. After 15 minutes I got much closer and identified the TF as 4 DDs in a box pattern. While I was hesitating whether to attack, the closest DD steered my way and increased speed - his range ~5km, AOB ~70stb, seen on ~10 o'clock position, my speed - flank, wind ~3-4m/s, sun, scattered clouds. Crash dive to 100m, 90 degree turn to port, then silent running. DD run over my position dropping 2 DCs (no pings at all), exploded about 50-100m away and much shallower as observed through Obs (i know it is cheating). Immediately after explosions I made ahead flank burst for 15 seconds and turned 45 stb. Destroyer slowed down and sitted for a minute or so listening (?) Then speeded up to DC charge turned roughly in my direction but failed to run over me, dropped 1 DC ~100m away to port. Sonar reports 2nd DD got close (I play with externals off), it started to search far away from me and failed to find me at all. In the mean time I sinked to 135m. The first DD made two more runs each further away from me. Then lost me completely, I ordered 2 knots ahead and steered away from him, after 15 minutes ordered 3 knots. Judging by the sound DD searches a bit more and then steam away to rejoin TF.
It all seemed very realistic to me except that they definitely did not try to ping me as much as I expected in approx. 1 hour this thing took place I heard only 2-3 random pings. While in reality you would expect them to ping continuosly until ceasing search, why should DD not ping if he knows for sure that you already hear him? Even if he pings everytime in completely random direction and depth, the statistics chances of catching you in the beam get higher with every single ping. So he would ping, I recon, continuosly as soon as he discovers you (remember 2.5km range of that 'searchlight' beam?) and not ceasing until he leaves "search" mode, only switching to ranging gate when making his DC run.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Vanilla

I doubt that even a Veteran or Elite destroyer would hear a sub running silent (15 rpm of E-machine, that is the propeller rotates only once every four seconds) and below 200m through their passive hydrophones. Particularly if we consider noise of the destroyer itself, turbulence they've created speeding around, recent DC blasts bubbles waves and ripples on the surface etc. I guess even modern destroyer, would have difficulties keeping contact.
And since the sub would be impossible to hear they have to ping to keep the contact - where SteelViking reported they didn't, that is unrealistic.

My recent experience with HK group: 1939, on clear sunny day at about 1400 a TF was reported by the lookouts. I ordered ahead flank and steered a intercept course as I could only see smokes and thought at first that it could be a BB or CA. After 15 minutes I got much closer and identified the TF as 4 DDs in a box pattern. While I was hesitating whether to attack, the closest DD steered my way and increased speed - his range ~5km, AOB ~70stb, seen on ~10 o'clock position, my speed - flank, wind ~3-4m/s, sun, scattered clouds. Crash dive to 100m, 90 degree turn to port, then silent running. DD run over my position dropping 2 DCs (no pings at all), exploded about 50-100m away and much shallower as observed through Obs (i know it is cheating). Immediately after explosions I made ahead flank burst for 15 seconds and turned 45 stb. Destroyer slowed down and sitted for a minute or so listening (?) Then speeded up to DC charge turned roughly in my direction but failed to run over me, dropped 1 DC ~100m away to port. Sonar reports 2nd DD got close (I play with externals off), it started to search far away from me and failed to find me at all. In the mean time I sinked to 135m. The first DD made two more runs each further away from me. Then lost me completely, I ordered 2 knots ahead and steered away from him, after 15 minutes ordered 3 knots. Judging by the sound DD searches a bit more and then steam away to rejoin TF.
It all seemed very realistic to me except that they definitely did not try to ping me as much as I expected in approx. 1 hour this thing took place I heard only 2-3 random pings. While in reality you would expect them to ping continuosly until ceasing search, why should DD not ping if he knows for sure that you already hear him? Even if he pings everytime in completely random direction and depth, the statistics chances of catching you in the beam get higher with every single ping. So he would ping, I recon, continuosly as soon as he discovers you (remember 2.5km range of that 'searchlight' beam?) and not ceasing until he leaves "search" mode, only switching to ranging gate when making his DC run.

I can make them ping like mad if that's what you want.....it's a WIP so more tweaking is needed. I'll play with the sonar and release another version.

[Vanilla]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I can make them ping like mad if that's what you want.....it's a WIP so more tweaking is needed. I'll play with the sonar and release another version.

I guess that would be more realistic.
The only thing that puzzles me is if they should not be pinging while listening passively, I guess they could deafen their own sonarmen this way. In all other situations they should be pinging continuosly. That is - if he knows that you are around, he tries to listen, if he picks you up - then he should be immediately switching to active sonar to get exact bearing and range and not switching it off unless he loses track. If he can't get contact with you passively, he should try to ping in a search pattern across last known position, making breaks to listen passively from time to time. And I recon when DD first get to you he should start pinging from far away at max active sonar range as he sure cannot hear a thing while moving that fast and active pinging is the only way to make contact with you.

[SteelViking]

Huh, I wonder why our experiences were so different. What you just explained does seem spot on realism wise.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

Huh, I wonder why our experiences were so different. What you just explained does seem spot on realism wise.

the beauty of Randomness.....I have lots of it coded into the ship's AI