The Revisionist Attitude Towards The Pacific Theater

[Ducimus]

The last battle of WW2, was in the pacific.
The war began here before Europe, and it continued after Europe. Just FYI.

Since things have to be "dramatic" for some of you people to appreciate and understand.... enjoy:

Shootout: Okinawa, The Last Battle of WWII
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
part 4:
Part 5:

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

This was on TCM once but I missed the beginning and had to leave before it ended so I didn't see much of it. I understand it was filmed with two different endings, one version for release in the US and one for Japanese audiences. Both are supposedly available now, I guess on the DVD release.

Actually I've seen it explained. The original script had a rather grim ending. Lee Marvin didn't like it, so they rewrote the ending to be more easygoing. The director didn't like it and edited a new ending which is the one that was shown in the theaters. The original filmed ending is the alternate one on the video, and has an unfinished sound track. The original grim script ending was never filmed.

[onelifecrisis]

Who says the PTO wasn't dramatic? I thought it had the most drama. In Europe we had a clash of steel and flesh, but in the Pacific the US and Japan were having a clash of ideologies. There were kamikaze pilots and suicidal civilians on one side, and the most individualistic nation in the world on the other. I'll never forget one documentary I saw where an American gunner was shooting down a kamikaze; he hit the plane and it started to fall, but instead of looking for a new target the gunner kept shooting at the plane as it fell, then kept shooting at the spot on the ocean where it landed... he just wouldn't stop shooting that thing, even long after it had stopped being threat. Meanwhile, the narrator was explaining the psychological impact that kamikaze pilots had on American crews.

Now contrast that with the nations of Europe, who are all so similar and all so used to fighting each other that opposing armies have been known to put down their guns on Christmas Day and play football.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Who says the PTO wasn't dramatic? I thought it had the most drama. In Europe we had a clash of steel and flesh, but in the Pacific the US and Japan were having a clash of ideologies. There were kamikaze pilots and suicidal civilians on one side, and the most individualistic nation in the world on the other. I'll never forget one documentary I saw where an American gunner was shooting down a kamikaze; he hit the plane and it started to fall, but instead of looking for a new target the gunner kept shooting at the plane as it fell, then kept shooting at the spot on the ocean where it landed... he just wouldn't stop shooting that thing, even long after it had stopped being threat. Meanwhile, the narrator was explaining the psychological impact that kamikaze pilots had on American crews.

Now contrast that with the nations of Europe, who are all so similar and all so used to fighting each other that opposing armies have been known to put down their guns on Christmas Day and play football.

Are you quite certain you're talking about WWII rather than WWI?

The war in Europe was an ideological war. The war in the Pacific was a resource war...

[sergei]

And I'll never forget an interview I saw of a US sailor who had lived through several weeks of these attacks.
In the middle of one of these kamikaze attacks, one of his shipmates just stood up, said "Boy, it's hot today", and walked off the side of the ship. They never saw him again.
Just couldn't take any more I guess.

Seeing that interview really sent shivers down my spine.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Are you quite certain you're talking about WWII rather than WWI?

The war in Europe was an ideological war. The war in the Pacific was a resource war...

No need to get snooty. Yes, it was in WW1 that at least one football match took place between the trenches in France, but I thought it was a good example of how similar Europeans are (that single example demonstrates same religion and same sport interests, but the similarities go much further than that).

You say WW2 in Europe was an ideological war? Based on what? The Germans had a go at building an empire, just like the British and French and Austro-Hungarians did. Nothing new in that.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by sergei

And I'll never forget an interview I saw of a US sailor who had lived through several weeks of these attacks.
In the middle of one of these kamikaze attacks, one of his shipmates just stood up, said "Boy, it's hot today", and walked off the side of the ship. They never saw him again.
Just couldn't take any more I guess.

Seeing that interview really sent shivers down my spine.

Reading that post sent a chill down mine.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The war in Europe was an ideological war. The war in the Pacific was a resource war...

The people of Nanking would disagree.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Yes, it was in WW1 that at least one football match took place between the trenches in France, but I thought it was a good example of how similar Europeans are (that single example demonstrates same religion and same sport interests, but the similarities go much further than that).

That much is certainly true. The Japanese philosophy of society, the individual's place in that society, and how war was viewed were very different than it was in western societies. The Germans were dangerous enemies, but understandable in the western sense. A surrounded German would surrender, as any of his other western counterparts. The Japanese, by the same standards, were wholly unpredictable; a surrounded Japanese soldier might surrender, or he might kill himself, or he might blow himself, and everyone in his immediate vicinity to pieces. As you and others have also alluded, a Japanese pilot might strafe you with machine gun fire, drop bombs or torpedos, or fly his plane directly into your ship. I imagine that it is quite unnerving to fight an enemy whose philosophy is so alien to your own.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by sergei

And I'll never forget an interview I saw of a US sailor who had lived through several weeks of these attacks.
In the middle of one of these kamikaze attacks, one of his shipmates just stood up, said "Boy, it's hot today", and walked off the side of the ship. They never saw him again.
Just couldn't take any more I guess.

Seeing that interview really sent shivers down my spine.

So many of the stories you hear from vets of the Pacific theater are just downright scary. It's amazing, the things they pulled through.

Where we live we have quite a few former aviators and marines (NAS Corpus Christi was at one point the largest training facility in the world for naval aviatiors during WWII), not to mention the relatives on my dad's side who served. (Once great-uncle was part of the first waves of Marines on Iwo Jimo) And my mom's side of the family is mainly from the Philippines, so I've always been interested in that area of the war.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

That much is certainly true. The Japanese philosophy of society, the individual's place in that society, and how war was viewed were very different than it was in western societies. The Germans were dangerous enemies, but inderstandable in the western sense. A surrounded German would surrender, as any of his other western counterparts. The Japanese, by the same standards, were wholly unpredictable; a surrounded Japanese soldier might surrender, or he might kill himself, or he might blow himself, and everyone in his immediate vicinity to pieces. As you and others have also alluded, a Japanese pilot might strafe you with machine gun fire, drop bombs or torpedos, or fly his plane directly into your ship. I imagine that it is quite unnerving to fight an enemy whose philosophy is so alien to your own.

My point exactly.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by August

Off the top of my head Britain, France, the Netherlands and the USSR all participated in that conflict.

Austraila, New Zealand, and Canada participated on the Allied Side.

Siam on the Japanese side.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The last battle of WW2, was in the pacific.
The war began here before Europe, and it continued after Europe. Just FYI.

The UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) wasn't defeated until 1956!

The UPA also has the distinction of being at war with both the Axis and Allies at the same time.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Help me out here, guys. Movies that tell the story of the Pacific war.

The Cane Mutiny

[Raptor1]

Ah, I see. You refer to the different side's ideologies effecting how they fought, while I was referring to the reasons behind the war itself.

Japan attacked the Western Allies in order to obtain resources so it can continue it's invasion of China, not because it's ideology demanded it attack them. Germany's invasion of Poland and later Russia was quite clearly launched with the intentions of fulfilling the ideological wishes of the Nazis (Among other things).

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The Cane Mutiny

good one, loved Bogie in that.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The Cane Mutiny

In fact, I've seen the movie a while ago and loved it. Then I read the book and liked it even more...