The Revisionist Attitude Towards The Pacific Theater

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Good movies (not sub-related):

Tora! Tora! Tora! (outstanding history, great movie as well)

Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo (slows down in the middle, as it's one man's true story) but great carrier and flight scenes)

Wake Island (made during the war, propoganda, but informative and good)

Midway (way too much romance and fiction, but gives a good overview of the battle, and some good aircraft shots)

Flags Of Our Fathers (mostly about the aftermath, but still good battle scenes)

Letters From Iwo Jima (great movie about the Japanese side, and marks Clint Eastwood's entry into the Great Directors Of All Time category)

The Great Raid (little-known recent film, tells the true story of a prisoner-of-war-camp liberation)

Help me out here, guys. Movies that tell the story of the Pacific war.

There are many, I recommend:

"With The Marines at Tarawa" (Documentary)

"From here to eternity"

"Bridge on the River Kwai"

"The Naked and the Dead"

"Father Goose"

"King Rat"

"Bah, Bah, Black Sheep"(TV)

"Empire of the Sun"

"Paradise Road"

"The Thin Red Line"

"HBO's The Pacific"(TV)

[Oberon]

A good series about the Pacific theatre but not technically about the actual fighting per se is Tenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenko_%28TV_series%29



Worth a look, it's very well made and well acted.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Letters From Iwo Jima. I haven't seen it yet but I really want to.

I highly recommend the book that the movie was based on as well.
"So Sad to Fall in Battle" by Kumiko Kakehashi.

It puts quite a human face on what is usually a enemy portrayed as a fanatical weapon based on so much propaganda.
The movie does a good job as making the Japanese soldier human as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Sad-Fall-Battl...9113299&sr=1-1

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Good movies (not sub-related):
Tora! Tora! Tora!
The Great Raid

These two are very underappreciated films compared to their quality. I hadn't even heard of the latter before seeing it in a discount dvd-bin, and it turned out to be pretty good.

To add to the list:
Yamato(2005)
A Japanese film that concentrates on a handful of crewmembers on the battleship Yamato and the ships demise in the naval kamikaze operation "Ten-Go". Dramatized for sure, but generally a very well made movie and a refreshing change compared to the usual Hollywood point of view.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Good movies (not sub-related):

Tora! Tora! Tora! (outstanding history, great movie as well)

I remember when this "premiered" on network television here. We watched it. I was a kid so my understanding was limited in some aspects, altho I certainly knew about Pearl Harbor and that it's what got the US officially into the war. Have seen it in bits and pieces since, probably need to rent it and watch all the way through again.

My main recollection of this movie is the reaction of one of the Japanese admirals (Yamamoto?) when he finds out that they attacked without their political/diplomatic emissaries having delivered some kind of ultimatum or statement of intent or whatever to the appropriate US officials at the appointed time way far away in Washington DC. Don't know how historically accurate that is, or if I misunderstood what was happening. But it gave me a sad feeling of "well the politicians *******ed things up and now the guys in uniform - on both sides - are gonna have to pay the price."

Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo (slows down in the middle, as it's one man's true story) but great carrier and flight scenes)
Wake Island (made during the war, propoganda, but informative and good)
The Great Raid (little-known recent film, tells the true story of a prisoner-of-war-camp liberation)

Have heard of the first one but not seen it as far as I remember. Not familiar at all with the latter two.

Flags Of Our Fathers (mostly about the aftermath, but still good battle scenes)

Letters From Iwo Jima (great movie about the Japanese side, and marks Clint Eastwood's entry into the Great Directors Of All Time category)

Have seen the latter, not the former. It's in my Netflix queue somewhere.

Midway (way too much romance and fiction, but gives a good overview of the battle, and some good aircraft shots)

Tried to watch this one a couple times but as is sometimes the case with his movies I just couldn't get past Charlton Heston, who I can really only stand to watch when the scenery chewing is kept to a minimum and/or the quality of the "product" overall is much higher. Sadly, not the case here for me, since IMO what I saw of the film seemed very cliched and formulaic. Also, if Hollywood wants to make a movie about the PTO and have me connect primarily with the stock American "good guys," they need to not put Toshiro Mifune in charge of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Help me out here, guys. Movies that tell the story of the Pacific war.

I believe The Thin Red Line is about Guadalcanal? Which I did not realize or remember until I was moving it up to the top of my queue after some high praise of it in another thread here. For some reason I thought it was about 'Nam. I have it at home now but due to its length probably won't be able to watch it until the weekend.

Part of it for me is that I'm not a "war movie" fan, generally speaking, meaning it's a genre that doesn't typically appeal to me, like say sci-fi. I'll forgive a lot in a sci-fi film if the "concept" or the effects are entertaining enough. But I'm not likely to sit through a war picture "just because" - it usually has to be either so well made that its appeal transcends any question of genre, or have some element of it that appeals to me personally at the moment even if it's not a five-star product.

[Bilge_Rat]

The PTO has always been viewed as a sideshow or secondary theater. There are many reasons for this. Most european countries had no interest or troops in the conflict. It really only interests the USA and Japan.

During the war, the coverage was limited. Nothing came out of Japan. The US had most of its troops/resources put into defeating Germany first and this was viewed as the main front.

Unlike the German propaganda machine which trumpeted German triumphs and turned Prien and Rommel into household names even in the UK, the US kept a tight lid on information. Submarine operations in the Pacific received no reporting at all. News was heavily filtered. For example, the news of the Battle of Savo Island in early august 42 (an Allied defeat) was not released until mid-october 42 when they could announce the victory at Cape Esperance at the same time.

Japan, unlike Germany, has still not totally admitted or faced its role in WW2. The Japanese have managed to portray the myth that they fought a tough, but clean war, even though they murdered more civilians in Asia than the Nazis did in Europe.

Of course, the lack of coverage or interest is nothing new. Entire wars receive little or no coverage compared to WW2 (Korea, Vietnam, Middle east wars). Even within WW2, you have different level of interests: ETO is more popular than PTO; Land war is more popular than Naval or Air War; Within ETO land war, NWE 44-45 tends to suck up all the oxygen.

[August]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Most european countries had no interest or troops in the conflict. It really only interests the USA and Japan.

Off the top of my head Britain, France, the Netherlands and the USSR all participated in that conflict.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by August

Off the top of my head Britain, France, the Netherlands and the USSR all participated in that conflict.

ok, minor interest. Britain adopted a wholly defensive attitude until 1944 leaving the heavy lifting to the Americans. The Russians did not declare war until august 6, 1945. The French (Vichy) collaborated with the Japanese until early 45, not something they like to remember. The Dutch did fight hard to defend Indonesia in early 42, but were overwhelmed.

[Sailor Steve]

How could I forget one of my all-time favorites?

Hell In The Pacific. Stupid title, great movie with two great actors (and only those two). Not really about the war, but a drama about two opposing warriors trapped together (and yes, Enemy Mine was a terrible rip-off). If you should see this one, watch it with the subtitles OFF. It didn't have subtitles in the theater, and it really makes a difference. I will admit that I keep them on now, because what Mifune is saying is kind of fun.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063056/

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Tried to watch this one a couple times but as is sometimes the case with his movies I just couldn't get past Charlton Heston, who I can really only stand to watch when the scenery chewing is kept to a minimum and/or the quality of the "product" overall is much higher. Sadly, not the case here for me, since IMO what I saw of the film seemed very cliched and formulaic. Also, if Hollywood wants to make a movie about the PTO and have me connect primarily with the stock American "good guys," they need to not put Toshiro Mifune in charge of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Midway is one of my least favorite movies, precisely for the reasons you mentioned. I prefer movies about real events over the usual 'war' movie. Midway would have been much better if it had been done Tora Tora Tora-style.

[August]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

ok, minor interest. Britain adopted a wholly defensive attitude until 1944 leaving the heavy lifting to the Americans. The Russians did not declare war until august 6, 1945. The French (Vichy) collaborated with the Japanese until early 45, not something they like to remember. The Dutch did fight hard to defend Indonesia in early 42, but were overwhelmed.

Wholly defensive? Well what about Orde Wingate and the Chindits?

As for the rest:
The Japanese and Soviets first fought each other way back July 0f 1938.

Several of the French colonies in the pacific sided with the Free French instead of the Vichy. As a matter of fact despite being nominally on the Axis' side, fighting between the Vichy French and Japanese still broke out in Sept of 1940 when the Japanese violated the terms of their agreement over the occupation of French Indochina.

As for the Dutch, they might have been overwhelmed but they still participated too.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

How could I forget one of my all-time favorites?

Hell In The Pacific.

This was on TCM once but I missed the beginning and had to leave before it ended so I didn't see much of it. I understand it was filmed with two different endings, one version for release in the US and one for Japanese audiences. Both are supposedly available now, I guess on the DVD release.

And yes, part of the "impact" of the story is supposed to come from the fact that the two men speak different languages and can't really communicate with each other verbally. So leaving the subtitles off (for someone who understands only one of the languages involved) would probably make it a more interesting experience the first time around.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

ok, minor interest. Britain adopted a wholly defensive attitude until 1944 leaving the heavy lifting to the Americans. The Russians did not declare war until august 6, 1945. The French (Vichy) collaborated with the Japanese until early 45, not something they like to remember. The Dutch did fight hard to defend Indonesia in early 42, but were overwhelmed.

In fact, the British attempted an offensive into Arakan in 1942 and early 1943 which failed miserably. The British army in Burma was simply incapable of conducting major offensive operations until the Japanese were decisively defeated at Imphal and Kohima.

And China. It seems like everyone is so keen on not counting China in the PTO, though it was practically the cause of the entire Pacific War.

[August]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

This was on TCM once but I missed the beginning and had to leave before it ended so I didn't see much of it. I understand it was filmed with two different endings, one version for release in the US and one for Japanese audiences. Both are supposedly available now, I guess on the DVD release.

And yes, part of the "impact" of the story is supposed to come from the fact that the two men speak different languages and can't really communicate with each other verbally. So leaving the subtitles off (for someone who understands only one of the languages involved) would probably make it a more interesting experience the first time around.

At first I thought you were talking about None but the Brave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_But_the_Brave

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by August

Wholly defensive? Well what about Orde Wingate and the Chindits?

As for the rest:
The Japanese and Soviets first fought each other way back July 0f 1938.

Several of the French colonies in the pacific sided with the Free French instead of the Vichy. As a matter of fact despite being nominally on the Axis' side, fighting between the Vichy French and Japanese still broke out in Sept of 1940 when the Japanese violated the terms of their agreement over the occupation of French Indochina.

As for the Dutch, they might have been overwhelmed but they still participated too.

I think the point was why the coverage of WW2 ETO in books, games, movies dwarfs the PTO.

I think it is fair to say that for the UK, France, USSR, Netherlands, the Pacific Theatre was of minor importance compared to the ETO.

For the US, it was of more importance since they were doing the bulk of the fighting, although I know that at one point in mid-42, the US had calculated that it was devoting only 15% of its overall resources to the PTO, although that was subsequently increased.

The invasion of Guadalcanal was so short of everything that it was dubbed "Operation Shoestring".

To be honest I have just recently, in the last year or so, started to focus on the PTO, and the CBI (China Burma India Theater), after meeting a gentleman who served in both theaters during WWII. B-24 crew.

His stories are intriguing and perilous.