North American Suckup Adminstration...

[tater]

Originally Posted by krashkart

If the White House wants to use NASA as an outreach to the Middle East, more power to them. I truly hope that their efforts to spread a better understanding of our strange and exotic civilization succeeds with beneficial results for all involved parties.

And while they are at it I would certainly hope that they stay on track with NASA's intended mission of exploring space. Mars is a long, long ways away from the primitive ISS missions.

Look, saying that education, even worldwide is A goal of NASA is fine, just fine. Saying that it is an important goal or focus to reach out to medieval religious nuts is, well, insane.

How's the NASA reach out tot he Luddites coming? How about reaching out to the "moon landing was faked" whackos?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by tater

Look, saying that education, even worldwide is A goal of NASA is fine, just fine. Saying that it is an important goal or focus to reach out to medieval religious nuts is, well, insane.

How's the NASA reach out tot he Luddites coming? How about reaching out to the "moon landing was faked" whackos?

Yeah, the conspiracy nuts. I don't think they can be changed. They've already made up their mind that the government pulled off the biggest hoax in human history. Reality escapes them I guess. To each their own strange beliefs.

Personally I would have liked to see another US moon shot per the previous administration's initiative. Unfortunately the current administration scrapped it and as such that may have set the space program back twenty or thirty years. I can gripe about that all day and still not feel any better for it. *poof*

I guess that the cultural differences between the tribal mentality of (much of) the Middle East and our own equally strange and bass-ackwards mentality are vast at this point. The way it looks to me, the Barack of Obama is trying to bridge those gaps in any way he can. More power to him because the road ahead looks to be long and treacherous. I think sometimes that our great-grandkids (on both sides) will still be dueling it out before the dust can settle. Somehow this great divide in ideologies we see today must be resolved with benefit to both parties in order for our species to progress. If it requires using the best and brightest in our nation to reach out on some level, so much the better.

...As long as it doesn't sap NASA's potential.

[razark]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Yeah, the conspiracy nuts. I don't think they can be changed. They've already made up their mind that the government pulled off the biggest hoax in human history. Reality escapes them I guess. To each their own strange beliefs.

But it's so much fun yelling to the folks on the tram that it was all done on a sound stage.

Originally Posted by krashkart

Personally I would have liked to see another US moon shot per the previous administration's initiative. Unfortunately the current administration scrapped it and as such that may have set the space program back twenty or thirty years. I can gripe about that all day and still not feel any better for it. *poof*

But doing a moon shot would be setting the program back. We did it 40 years ago. What would doing it again prove? That we can still do what we did 40 years ago?
If we want to make progress in space exploration, we need to go places we haven't been yet. The moon offers very little to us right now. Our next goal should be setting up a sustainable outpost on Mars. Planting flags and leaving footprints is not going to get us anywhere.

[tater]

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

[razark]

Originally Posted by tater

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

There's a lot that NASA does besides the space flight part. That's just the most visible. Much research is done that applies to other areas. One of the greatest benefits is the spinoff technologies that get used for completely different applications.

Rocket science isn't just used for rockets.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by tater

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

you shouldn't. altough educating those regions might moderate muslims but as the thread says: this is not the job of NASA

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by razark

But it's so much fun yelling to the folks on the tram that it was all done on a sound stage.

But doing a moon shot would be setting the program back. We did it 40 years ago. What would doing it again prove? That we can still do what we did 40 years ago?
If we want to make progress in space exploration, we need to go places we haven't been yet. The moon offers very little to us right now. Our next goal should be setting up a sustainable outpost on Mars. Planting flags and leaving footprints is not going to get us anywhere.

This is the 'moon shot' that I was referring to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program

President George W. Bush originally offered the proposal[20] as a way to "establish an extended human presence on the Moon" to "vastly reduce the costs of further space exploration." Inclusive to this would be the "harvesting and processing of lunar soil into rocket fuel or breathable air." According to Bush, experience gained could help "develop and test new approaches and technologies and systems"[20] to begin a "sustainable course of long-term exploration."[21]

It would be more than just landing a couple of guys and a dune buggy on the surface of the moon.

[razark]

Originally Posted by krashkart

This is the 'moon shot' that I was referring to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program

Meh. The moon is not very useful. Mars is the target we should be aiming for.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by tater

Why should I, an American taxpayer, fund ANY education in Muslim countries that presumably will only go towards building missiles, or other things to murder unbelievers?

Or am I missing a point?

Its all about 'hearts and minds' there are plenty of pepole in the Muslim comunity whom are not muderous extremist. Unfortunatly your not going to sway the latter with good intentions.

But to me its simple .. the space administration is about space and the foriegen relations departments are about forigen relations.

Unfortunatly I think the previous poster whom implied 'give them something to do' may be closer to the truth that you might want to think.

Im guessing the reasoning goes like this NASA has good relations with a number of forigen factions. NASA got smacked up with the program roll backs and yea look to loose thousands of jobs. So why not take advantage of those good releations and make a few jobs while there at it... Very few.

Then theres the enevitable path of the Muslim community getting 'offended' because we gave them this or that technology but witheld other key technology due to security concearns. So there goes the good working relationship with NASA.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by razark

Meh. The moon is not very useful. Mars is the target we should be aiming for.

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.

[Platapus]

I think that NASA should concentrate on building satellites that work.

Once they get that down, then we can work on the international marketing BS.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.

[razark]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Since they found water on Luna it can be a useful stop over for any Mars mission since water is useful not just for drinking but as fuel. Luna's lower gravity makes it easier to transfer fuel to say a Mars bound spaceship being built a L1 than sending that fuel from Earth.

A moon base makes no sense in going to Mars. The energy required to go from LEO to Lunar orbit to Mars orbit is much higher than LEO directly to Mars. It makes as much sense as driving from New York to Washington D.C. by stopping for gas in Dallas. Sure, it might be cheaper to get the gas there, but getting there doesn't make it worth it.

Water has been found on the moon, but not in large enough quantities to make it worthwhile. You'll end up importing it to the moon in much greater quantities than you will producing it on site, using up fuel to haul it there. Imagine using a supertanker to move a single barrel of oil. Quite inefficient. Mars has much higher quantities of water. Technology has already been demonstrated that can produce methane fuel and oxidizer to fuel ships. Mars would also make a better springboard to future missions to the asteroid belt and outer planets. The higher gravity and existing atmosphere, along with a rotational speed giving it a day of slightly over 24 hours, make it much easier for humans to operate. The moon has a 28 day day, with quite extreme temperature variations. The almost standard length day also means that farming would be easier to do on Mars, meaning that you would be able to produce more food locally, instead of having to import it from Earth. The available mineral resources on Mars also make production of building materials much easier than on the Moon.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Also its strategic, I hope Iran or China get it in their heads that a mass driver there pointed at Earth is a good idea. I think keeping Americans and our allies on Luna is a good way to maintain its demilitarized status.

That is one angle to think about. I don't think we'll need to worry about the mass driver for a few years yet, though.

[antikristuseke]

Azis the Combat Fighter!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by razark

A moon base makes no sense in going to Mars. The energy required to go from LEO to Lunar orbit to Mars orbit is much higher than LEO directly to Mars. It makes as much sense as driving from New York to Washington D.C. by stopping for gas in Dallas. Sure, it might be cheaper to get the gas there, but getting there doesn't make it worth it.

Not if they use the ITN for the trip from Earth Orbit to Luna. Then its free (just takes time.

That is one angle to think about. I don't think we'll need to worry about the mass driver for a few years yet, though.

I don't know, the USN is working on an impressive rail gun right now.