Ranking of U.S. Presidents by historians

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by thorn69

Was I not being civil? Certainly opposing Steve's views, and apparently yours, doesn't make me uncivil? I'm not trash talking anybody and don't plan on it. I wanted to drop the issue earlier but Steve persisted in continuing the argument.

BTW Neal, the Civil War was fought over States rights. I realize that slavery falls into that, but it was not the main cause for the war. It would appear that you've fallen victim to the same liberal teachings the rest of us have. I had to put down "what they wanted to hear" on my tests just to pass grade school - Not what I believed to be right and what other publications have stated. Instead of school systems teaching BOTH sides of the argument, they only teach the one side that won the war's argument. But like I've said, the victor is not always right. They just had better numbers on their side. And in the case of the Civil War - The repeating rifle.

Why do I support States rights? Simple. Because what affects the people in one state doesn't necessarily affect the people in another. Therefore they are ignorant to the problem. For instance, it's simple for people up north to condemn Arizona about its stance with illegal immigration. They don't have to contend with the problem themselves. It may even bolster their numbers to have these people given a free pass to vote democratic on the next election! I would imagine they would have a different opinion if they had to face the problem on a daily basis though. It's not like their jobs are being sold out to the lowest bidder who's willing to work for less than minimum wage!

Honestly, I think Arizona should just abandon their new law and just change it to say that illegal immigration is OK - just not here. Offer the illegals bus fare to New York State, Michigan, Vermont, and Maine. Let those people chew on the bleak reality they seem to be so in favor of. I doubt they'd be so welcoming. Bottom line - It's so easy to sit in judgment over others when the problems aren't your own.

And as Forrest Gump said best, "That's all I have to say about that"

States rights was just a convenient excuse. Countries dont go to war over whether certain powers should be exercised at the state or federal level. The primary cause was slavery. The southern radicals like Senator Robert Rhett who pushed South carolina to declare independence wanted not only to preserve slavery, but to bring back the African slave trade.

Whether individual states had a right to secede was legally debatable, you had as many argument on one side as the other. The federal government was perfectly within its rights to say individual states do not have a right to secede and will be brought back into the Union by force, if required.

The irony of course is that Lincoln was quite ready to live with slavery to preserve the Union. If the southern states had not attempted to break away, it would have been pretty much business as usual. As late as the summer of 1862, Lincoln would have been willing to maintain slavery in the South in exchange for a return of the rebel states to the Union.