One for UnderseaLcpl

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Really? I was under the impression that the reason people become libertarians is that they know perfectly well what the world involves and they don't like what they see. In any case, "what the real world involves" is a pretty broad category. Are we talking about politically, or economically, or socially? All three? The birds and the bees? Why the sky is blue? Can anyone please explain to me what it is we are missing?

I thought you were or have been in the military? How can you be a libertarian?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

I thought you were or have been in the military? How can you be a libertarian?

I presume that what you mean to say is "how can you be a member of an organization that uses force on others if you believe in maximum freedom". Is that closer to the mark, or am I misunderstanding the question?

[Jimbuna]

James, you heartless Libertarian....you left your flatmates picture in your Photobucket account again I see

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

.... will always make blanket generalizations.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I presume that what you mean to say is "how can you be a member of an organization that uses force on others if you believe in maximum freedom". Is that closer to the mark, or am I misunderstanding the question?

Well, sorta. I don't associate any kind of liberalism with the military. To me liberalism brings to mind Amsterdam and hippie women etc. Which isn't necessarily bad but, different.

[TLAM Strike]

Wait a minute... Libertarian minded military organizations?

From The Tough Guide to the Known Galaxy:

LIBERTARIAN MILITARISTS. A society that is frequently met with, at least among EARTH HUMANS. These people believe in minimal government and maximum personal autonomy, yet they have a large military establishment with very well-disciplined troops. This raises some interesting questions. How minimal can a government be if it collects enough taxes to support that enormous military? Don't people feel that if they're going to pay all those taxes they might as well get some roads or public colleges as well? And how does a society so devoutly individualistic provide sufficient recruits to an organization as essentially and necessarily group-oriented and authoritarian as a military force? More generally, how does this odd combination arise in the first place? If these people are libertarians, they're unlikely to be EMPIRE builders, so they don't need a big military for conquest. And if they are so threatened from all sides as to need it for defense, how have they avoided a garrison-state culture in which (necessarily authoritian) military values become generally dominant in the society? Political scientists and sociologists have yet to provide a satisfactory answer to these questions. They need to work harder. It can't be for lack of examples, because PLANETS with Libertarian Militarist societies are found all over the KNOWN GALAXY.

The United Federation of Planets falls in to this category...

Marine huh? That wasn't Starfleet Marines was it?



We learn something new abut UnderseaLcpl every day...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Well, sorta. I don't associate any kind of liberalism with the military. To me liberalism brings to mind Amsterdam and hippie women etc. Which isn't necessarily bad but, different.

Libertarianism isn't liberalism, though it is closer to classical liberalism than modern liberalism is, if that makes any sense. Libertarians, as a whole, believe in liberal social policies, limited government, and strictly conservative fiscal policy, though there are divisions within that general spectrum.

I was a staunch Republican when I joined the military, but I changed my mind and went libertarian halfway through the enlistment. The change came from seeing just how well the most disciplined, honorable, responsible, proud part of the government did things on a daily basis. I figure that if the military can't do anything right with the obscene amount of control it can excercise, nobody else can either, especially when politics comes into play.

Libertarians, however, can be quite militant, though they favor militias and PMCs over a state military. I personally think that both the military and the police should be about 50% state and 50% competing private firms, just as a test-bed policy. If you look at non-combat high-tech support in the US military, you'll see that private firms have already all but driven out the state, as they are the only ones providing the training and pay necessary for all our complex equipment.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Besides, it would make no sense for a Dem to fear a Libertarian. They're going to siphon more votes away from the GOP if they because a more powerful political force and possible third party in this country.

True, libertarians tend to siphon more votes from the GOP than from the Democrats, though they do get recruits from both sides. What Dems should be worried about is another re-polarization of the electorate where the GOP nabs the libertarian vote and actually adopts some libertarian policies. Third parties may not win offices very often, but they play a major role in influencing the platform of the big parties if they are strong enough. That will leave the Dems with the opposite tack, namely the US socialist and Communist parties, who are even less popular than libertarians.

@TLAM, thanks for that link, I'm going to read through the whole thing after I post this.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Shaddap, you!